Examples of OL chronology used in other sources

Dating of the various texts in relation to other sources, archaeology, geology, genetics etc.
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Nordic
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Examples of OL chronology used in other sources

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The OL catastrophe is based on the 4.2 kiloyear event at about 2194 BC. Since both it and the other older similar event use similar titles of Altland, Atland, Altlantis, Atlantis (of which "Atlantic" Ocean i.e. 'Atlantis Ocean'), much confusion between the two is apparent from various old sources.

A good example is given by Norse Búri-Finn who at one time emerges out of the ice age prison i.e. as Fin of Bock family saga Fin (Lemminköinen), Sven and Dan Gotland story, yet is also othertimes an ancestor of Odin at seemingly 2000 BC era i.e. immediate ancestor to Wodin of OL. Another examples of the Nordic Finn/Fin theme are the Egyptian Atlas of Atlantis, called Shu (↔ "Finn" i.e. Suomi, suomalainen, Chude etc) and the corresponding North American ice age tale of Heiltsuk nation in an unfrozen land, cf. story of unfrozen ice age Hel and Suomi nation in Bock family saga. More about that here in the links about the Gutian issue.

We see the same with Greek translation of Phoenician Sanchuniathon that again mixes the Greek Atlantis and Atlas of 9600 BC with the OL Atland situation and two Finnish army groups at 2200 BC via. By losing (compressing) the time horizont this puts the stone age Atlas into same timespace as bronze age descendants of Dioscuri sailing in Mediterranean Sea i.e. descendants of Nórr and Górr sailing Mediterranean Sea as part of Tunis' navy, with the lost princess Gói implicitly taking the role of lost Helen.

But are there cases where the same chronology as in OL was used? The answer is yes, in both explicit and implicit manners.

Case 1 Frisian Almanac (1836)

Noted by Jan Ott here, an early 1800s Frisian almanac uses the same flood date of 2194 BC as OL.
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Case 2 Benito Arias Montano chronology (1837)

Noted first by anonymous (thank you!), Benito Montano was a major Catholic Bible scholar and specialized in hoarding old family manuscripts from Belgium and Netherlands region (Antwerp, Breda). He used the same flood date of 2194 BC as OL as reported in Frédéric de Brotonne, Histoire de la filiation et des migrations des peuples (1837), part two, p. 431.
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Frédéric de Brotonne lists in his work multiple different chronologies of which only the Montano one agrees with the Frisian almanac and OL. This, combined with his known work in collecting old manuscripts from the same region, suggests he specifically based his chronological work on a Frisian tradition.
Last edited by Nordic on 18 May 2024, 14:13, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Examples of OL chronology used in other sources, part 2

Post by Nordic »

Case 3 Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (c. 1154)

Anglo-Saxon Chronicle uses a chronology where world began either at 5195 (AD 6) or 5194 BC (AD 33). This is exactly 3000 years before the OL flood date. As OL chronology's latest round begins at the notable flood point of 2194 BC, this suggest that somebody in England confused the beginning of a chronology round from a flood with the beginning of world, perhaps due to e.g. spirit of God over the waters episode in creation. Subsequently they had to rework the starting point back in time to make Biblical chronological sense and this was done by adding a neat full number in thousands. As in:
1. pre-existing OL beginning of new 6000 year chronology at 2194 BC (implicit but explicit in other sources)
2. beginning of chronology at flood mistaken for beginning of world with God's spirit over the waters (implicit)
3. a realization it won't fit the New Testament Jesus chronology, a 3000 number is added to age it (implicit).
4. the resulting chronology is used in Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (explicit).
As by-product this makes 2194 BC the exact middle or half point of this Christian 6000 year chronology.

Note that same work references the Odin and Búri-Finn tales (AD 547, AD 854) familiar from Frá Fornjóti and echoing in turn OL MS 050-056, episodes central to OL chronology. This shows that the same Christian source contains in it Norse pagan tales that do link back in pagan context to the Atlantis and Altland themes.
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Case 4 original chronology in Jordanes' Getica (c. 541)

Jordanes was a AD 500s Gothic historian who told the story of vast Gothic empire under its Scythian or Finnic name Oium (Estonian Ojamaa 'Gotland'), a tale known elsewhere from Gutasaga and Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks (under the name Reiðgotaland, same as Jordanes' Gothiscandza and Oium). While Jordanes lived in a Roman Christian surroundings, the work is notable containing a pagan pan-Gothic view that includes accounts of Gothic Amazons in eastern Europe (a reality at the same Gothic Black Sea area), Gothic-Egyptian wars and likes. Jordanes' own chronology does not match with that of OL. In the end of his book he notes that:
And thus a famous kingdom and most valiant race, which had long held sway, was at last overcome in almost its two thousand and thirtieth year by that conquerer of many nations, the Emperor Justinian, through his most faithful consul Belisarius.
[Source: Jordanes, The Origin and Deeds of the Goths, ch. LX]
Belisarius may have been Gothic himself (name is not Roman, born in town Germania, famous for preferring cavalry like Goths but unlike Romans) and his Roman victory over the Goths took place in year AD 554. The Jordanes' quoted reference thus means the Oium was established in about 1477 BC. However there are textual reasons to believe this was not the original Gothic chronology, as explained below.

In Jordanes' account a noteworthy detail is the Gothic-Egyptian war of Tanausis and Vesosis. This same war is known from elsewhere under the name of Egyptian Sesostris' war on Europe. This seems to have been based on name Senusret III, who is believed to have ruled 1878-1839 BC. In Jordanes' account this war happens quite early on and it's easy to back-calculate generations to point when the grand Gothic adventure began:
  • 1st king Berig of Scandza (Scandinavia)
  • 2nd referred but unnamed king
  • 3rd referred but unnamed king
  • 4th referred but unnamed king
  • 5th Filimer son of Gadaric at Maeotis
  • 6th Tanauis (later deified) at Maeotis who battles Vesosis/Sesostris/Senusret III.
1st king Berig is five generations backwards in time from the Egyptian pharaoh. If we assume an approximate date of 30 years for one generation, the story of Berig moving out of Scandinavia towards the Eastern Europe starts at 2028 to 1989 BC, or at about 2000 BC. Now this can't be a coincidence for this Berig, who moves out of Scandinavia via ships, is similar to Bergelmir of the frost giants fame who survives the flood caused by Odin and his brothers by killing Ymir. This latter episode is similar to OL story of 2194 BC flood and c. 2013 BC Wodin's successful war against the Finns (described as frost giants in Norse and Finnish echoes e.g. Fornjót lineage, Iku-Turilas as 'þurs'). This suggest that:
  • OL flood ↔ Bergelmir's flood (out of order)
  • Berig who leaves Scandinavia ↔ Bergelmir who survives a flood
  • Odin, Vili and Vé kill Ymir ↔ Wodin's succesful war against Finns and others
Since the chronology in OL is detailed, refers to actual historical eras (e.g. the turn from stone age to metal age) and is also attested from elsewhere, it's reasonable to assume that the original Berig-Bergelmir chronology referred to the same root chronology. Jordanes may have been influenced by Roman Christianity, for example not fully realising Berig's original Norse saga and OL context and wanting to put them all in age later than Moses (as in e.g. Jerome's Moses of 1592 BC). This due to a Christian hierarchy of nations where Biblical Jews must predate all others so as not to clash with the Biblical origin legends. This could also be due to his textual influence from religious Cassiodorus and his Chronica work on unified Roman (Christian) and Gothic history (unlike Jordanes, Cassiodorus was not a Goth).
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Re: Examples of OL chronology used in other sources

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Whereas OL uses a 6,000 year recurring cycle chronology, perhaps due to the 12 based Germanic number system (repeated ~teen after the number twelve), early Christians also used a 6,000 year as noted above in the Anglo-Saxon chronicle usage case. Another good example of this is the The First Book of Adam and Eve (link, another link, more about the work here) that also used a 6,000 year or 6 days chronology:
2 Yes, the Word that will again save you when the five and a half days are fulfilled."
3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five and a half days, he did not understand the meaning of them.
4 For Adam was thinking there would be only five and a half days for him until the end of the world.
5 And Adam cried, and prayed to God to explain it to him.
6 Then God in his mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and likeness [God looks human], explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One [Jesus Christ] would then come and save him and his descendants.
(Source: The First Book of Adam and Eve, ch. 3)
Thus in an early Christian chronology system 'a great day' meant thousand year period, like a wheel-spoke in Frisian OL chronology (MS 083: SPÉKE FON THET JOL). In Christian belief system the story begins with God's spirit over the waters, representing either the star sea of space or the planetary ocean system, and in Frisian belief system the corresponding naval theme is persent via the wheel-spokes and calling the Atlantic ocean 'Wralda's Sea' (MS 010, 047: WR.ALDAS SÉ).
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Re: Examples of OL chronology used in other sources

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Similar to Christian usage cases above, medieval Jews seems to have had a rather OL-esque deluge chronology. As reported by learned Persian sage Alberuni:
[...] the period between the Deluge and the Æra Alxandri. For the Jews derive from the Thora, and the following books, for this latter period 1,792 years, whilst the Christians derive from their Thora for the same period 2,938 years. (Source: Alberuni, On the Nature of the Eras)
Previous king Philip II died 336 BC and Alexander the Great became 26 years old in 382 BC. This makes the deluge either at 2128 BC (66) or 2174 BC (20), with differences to OL deluge date of 2194 in parentheses. The OL narrative mentions time periods of 101 and 80 years after the 2194 BC deluge, for which there is outside textual evidence in similar mention of 80 years (Sumerian King List) and 100 years (Rulers of Lagash). This means there was a textual tradition of some additional time to deluge point and this may be the textual cause of the error in exact dating (when Sumerian King List dynasties became the Jewish Old Testament dynasties, the rule lengths were all likewise changed).

Since the Jewish dates given by Alberuni differ from those of the Frisian Almanac and Benito Montano, the suggested root source for those two is still best explained as having been the geographically nearby Oera Linda book narrative.

Edit: Alberuni mentions the dates from which Æra Alxandri begins: death of his father or Alexander becoming to age of 26 (p. 32). The latter closes the difference gap to only 20 years.
Last edited by Nordic on 18 May 2024, 14:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Examples of OL chronology used in other sources

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Very nice finds, Nordic. The research in this thread is probably enough to write a 100-page book.
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Re: Examples of OL chronology used in other sources

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Pax wrote: 16 May 2024, 17:46 this thread is probably enough to write a 100-page book.
I'd love it. There should be a book compiling all evidence and arguments! So much great work Nordic.
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Re: Examples of OL chronology used in other sources

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As far as I know, Alewyn J. Raubenheimer's Chronicles From Pre-Celtic Europe (2014) is the only book thus far to attempt that. If one were to combine his research, the research by Jan and Asha Logos in their presentations, the research by revisionists like Gunnar Heinsohn and Laurent Guyénot and the research scattered across threads on this forum, the result would be a multi-volume encyclopaedia, sort of like the Baker Encyclopaedia of the Bible (1988). It would be a massive undertaking, but it would be a portable gold mine of information.
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