Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

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half life over
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Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

Post by half life over »

In the Oera Linda Book it gives the history of a disaster that happened around 4200 years ago which forced a migration into europe by sea. The genetic evidence suggest that there was a continent wide genetic change. In a harvard study they found a massive shift in genetics in the iberian peninsula which matches with the claim that from the Netherlands Europe was transformed. "Before the central Europeans moved in, Iberians had no detectable recent ancestry from outside the Iberian Peninsula. After 2000 B.C., 40 percent of Iberians' overall ancestors and 100 percent of their patrilineal ancestors—that is, their father and their father’s father and so forth—could be traced to the incoming groups from central Europe."
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/spotlight-ancient-iberia

On top of this we also have the genetic evidence of the bell beaker people genetic transformation. In the following chapter, "This was inscribed upon the walls of Fryasburg in Tex-land, as well as at Stavia and Medeasblik".

It gives the Historical account of a people who reform civilization in Texland or today called Texel in the Netherlands; after a major natural disaster in 2194 BCE. This people then went on to spread to all of Europe. If this is true you would see cultural artifacts being spread and you would see a massive change in the genetics of Europe from this one group.

The Bell Beaker People

In a genetic study entitled “The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe” it shows around 2200 BCE there was a massive shift in genome of Europe starting in the Netherlands (Ref 1). This transformation of Europe went along the Atlantic Iberia coast (Figure 1). You also have a massive shift in art and pottery. The name Bell Beaker People comes from the style bell beaker vases found at the various beaker complexes or Citadels as described in the Oera Linda Book (Figure 2, 3) (Ref 2). Before this study it was believed that the Beaker people wasn’t a people but a culture spread by trade. They believed the vases were spread by trade to other people and not a spread of people into these areas. This study destroys this false narrative because the genetics proves it was a spread of a people out of the Netherlands. This proves that the historical narrative of the OLB is authentic. The Bell Beaker complexes and vases were not discovered until the 1960s over 90 years after the OLB was discovered. Then over a 140 years after the book was translated and published the dna evidence proves the book true.

Reference:

The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe – https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/135962v1.full
Prehistoric pop culture: Deciphering the DNA of the Bell Beaker Complex – https://archaeology.co.uk/articles/feat ... omplex.htm
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Helgiteut
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Re: Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

Post by Helgiteut »

Yes, the Bell Beakers seem to match up well with the Fryas.
Image
If these cultures were Fryas (proto-Germanic), then the current theory that the "Indo-European/Aryan" speech came from the horse-herding steppe riders would be wrong. The Yamnaya culture would rather seem to be Finda's folk. Though the origins of the Iranian, Armenian and Indo-Aryan languages would seem hard to explain from the OLB worldview.
Brea, bûter en griene tsiis is goed Ingelsk en goed Frysk
half life over
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Re: Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

Post by half life over »

Helgiteut wrote: 30 Jun 2023, 13:52 Though the origins of the Iranian, Armenian and Indo-Aryan languages would seem hard to explain from the OLB worldview.

I disagree. The Oera Linda book talks about Fryans being taken as slaves from Krekaland after the 4.2ka Bp event. We also know that many Germans stayed behind in Iran and India. This suggests that they were likely subjugated by the magi of India. That is why the Yazidi today have magi as their spiritual leaders instead of priestesses.
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Kraftr
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Re: Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

Post by Kraftr »

DNA results for Kalashi people
Interestingly, a kalash is a pot that resembles a Zoroastrian firepot
These people may deserve a separate tread!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvf7JtI8h ... RuYQ%3D%3D
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Nordic
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Re: Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

Post by Nordic »

An average of 29 Bell Beakers (BBC) from Germany were noticeably similar to modern day Finns and Estonians (FIN, EST), with actual Germanic peoples being further away (the study p. 367, the book). Other than that the Bell Beakers seem to be the OL Frisian Germanic peoples.

I'm unaware of any legendary traditions about those pre-OL narrative German Finns. This is seemingly unlike with the of much earlier post-glacial stone age times of which survive several traditions e.g. Goths of Finland in likes of Johannes Magnus' history and the much later ones preceding Viking era e.g. Väinämöinen-Wægmund of Beowulf, Finn of Frisia and others that can be corroborated with DNA evidence ("one cluster from Sweden is closer to ancient Finnish populations", "we also see ancient [pre-Viking] Swedish-like and Finnish-like ancestry in the westernmost fringes of Europe, and Danish-like ancestry in the east, defying modern historical groupings", source).
20160000_MariaPalaPedroSoares, PedroMartinRichards_ArchaeogeneticandPalaeogeneticEvidenceforMetalAgeMobilityinEurope.png
20160000_MariaPalaPedroSoares, PedroMartinRichards_ArchaeogeneticandPalaeogeneticEvidenceforMetalAgeMobilityinEurope.png (211.91 KiB) Viewed 1800 times
Also I find it peculiar that the story of Nordic Krishna, specifically the Krishna and Narakasura sub-tale, was known to Finns and Germanic Icelandic peoples alike (Finnish, Finnish in English, Icelandic ch. 3, 6, Icelandic in English ch. 3, 6) yet makes no explicit appearance in OL. One reason could be the millenias long chronological gap from Krishna story at c. 3000 BC.
welkyn
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Re: Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

Post by welkyn »

Hello all, amateur archaeo/geneticist here. I found this forum the other day (have been interested in OLB for ~5 years) and thought I should comment in this thread since I know a little about Neolithic/Bronze Age migrations and population changes.

@half life over: The massive shift in genetics in Iberian peninsula c. 4,200 BP does not involve a maritime population. No significant migration by sea appears to have occurred at this time. This shift is Europe-wide, not restricted to one region or other. The incoming Bell Beaker carriers and their Corded Ware ancestors were predominantly herders from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe region (perhaps slightly further north): as far as OLB seems to be concerned, these people might have been "Magyar."

Any/all Bell Beaker "citadels" we've found seem to be Neolithic holdovers in Spain (i.e. predating the Beaker people). When they say "Beaker Complex" in an archaeological sense, they don't mean a place, but a burial package: the "complex" is the beaker, tools, hunting equipment, other offerings left with the dead etc.

@Helgiteut If Bell Beakers were Fryas, then the OLB theory that the Fryas were native Europeans (and not horse-riding steppe pastoralists) would be wrong. We can tell beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bell Beaker individuals in Netherlands etc. are descended (sometimes with surprisingly little native admixture) from Western Steppe Herders. So if OLB bears any hint of truth, there has been some significant confusion regarding the dates/timings, relative chronology, relative ethnography etc.

@Nordic As for why German Bell Beakers might appear closer to Finns/Estonians on a PCA plot, it looks to me (but I might be reading it wrong) like the chart shows Neolithic European mtDNA on the Y axis and "Middle Eastern mtDNA" (roughly) on the X axis. For some reason they're focusing exclusively on maternal lineages, i.e. this chart only deals with whether people's mothers were like Neolithic women or "Middle Eastern" women - if they weren't at all like either, people will be in the bottom left of the chart (so e.g. Han Chinese or Australian Aboriginals will be in the bottom left corner, having the least of any of this admixture)

Bell Beakers, Finns, Unetice, Latvians etc. will all be relatively low and to the left for different reasons: German Bell Beakers seemingly did not intermix as much with remnant farming populations in their area, leading to low Neolithic mtDNA rates in Unetice populations (see at the bottom, UC as far from Neolithic pops as the chart goes, further even than modern people). However, the Neolithic never even reached Latvia or Finland, so there would have been no-one for them to gain this admixture from in the first place - in fact, modern populations get most of what they have from descendants of Corded Ware...

Completely different reasons why they end up in more-or-less the same spot in the chart. Since it's to do with what they've not got, and not to do with what they've got, you can't read much more from it... Think of it like this: two structures don't have windows; one is a statue, the other a bombed out building. Very different reasons why they don't have windows!
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Kraftr
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Re: Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

Post by Kraftr »

welkyn wrote: 18 May 2024, 15:04 Hello all, amateur archaeo/geneticist here. I found this forum the other day (have been interested in OLB for ~5 years) and thought I should comment in this thread since I know a little about Neolithic/Bronze Age migrations and population changes.
[...}The incoming Bell Beaker carriers and their Corded Ware ancestors were predominantly herders from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe region (perhaps slightly further north)
We can tell beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bell Beaker individuals in Netherlands etc. are descended (sometimes with surprisingly little native admixture) from Western Steppe Herder[...] German Bell Beakers seemingly did not intermix as much with remnant farming populations in their area[....] So if OLB bears any hint of truth[...]
welcome! So I take it that you think the manuscript is not authentic?
On this forum we take official narratives like yours with a grain of salt; as you show data can be fallacious or presented in a malafide way. We don't think modern Dutch are the pure descendents of these Fryas. There are many posts here compiling many disagreements with official narratives, gradually a clearer picture of reality will emerge if you dig in. Questioning things, if for naught, will at least make you understand better then just let others tell you 'the truth'. Don't put all your money on this DNA debunk or wether they are pure NHG either to disprove Oera Linda Manuscript, Frisian is a Gothic language and Goths are related to steppe people too, there is also plenty of other threads to tickle the archaeologist in you and show you some interesting hypotheses how it came into the world, or how it kind of fits into history if you just correct some things in 'what we know now'. I can see many ways DNA results and the difficulty to grasp the information is mislead. Even or very much by the scientists and their companies(23andme and such) who can pander and over/underestimate, have blindspots, petissues or conform to mainstream migrationtheories and understanding of ethnicity, samplesize,. relative distance, cultural practice(travelling women choosing men freely etc.) tweaking their interpretations, I recommend not to put it on too high a pedestal.
archeology is changing, it seems that every recent find is a gamechanger, for this reason I withhold judgement and that I need a broad flexible approach. There is no sign of conquest, so one hypothasis for me is these male arrivals were just fraternising or even saving the neolithic after the flood, resulting in keeping and honouring the culture, matriarchal, that even could be recognised as being their own origins as well, while silently the tribal male root is genetically replaced for a significant part, and more through later marriage, maybe some promiscuity, multiple wives. To the people at the time it might not have felt like a genetic replacement because their looks and culture and genetics -recognisable today as separate and from a travelled strain of European from a deeper common root-, matched pretty well.
It was not uncommon for tribes to split and mix, difusing genetics.
Culture, political power(fictional and real) and genetics(dependant on choice of data and perimeters) are different aspects of a people and can have different storylines. I hadn't come to think much on the Unetice, it's interesting and they could be the Magi, having a more paternal and different religious worldview, or be a watered down Magi-fied tribe, maybe still alligned with more eastern, more Magi tribes, but being good neighbors, not crushing the strongly rooted Mater-culture.
I've wondered if male replacement is the outcome of women's desire to homogenise society; everyone should be a part of the group for safety reasons, so at first they want to close the gap, to even out the tension with the stranger that settled among them, later it becomes the norm, and the old male strain becomes 'ugly' on the back end of homogenisation. It may be how blue eyes could have spread too.

check out this tread for example and the video I posted in the original post.

-3 wins for Huntergatherer
viewtopic.php?t=175

DNA shows Yamnaya invasion is not as thought, neolithic Germans were not replaced by them.

The Genetic Melting Pot of Europe… Corded Ware Culture DNA Revealed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNMWEXzHfDA
Last edited by Kraftr on 24 May 2024, 13:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Nordic
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Re: Genetic evidence that validate the Oera Linda Book

Post by Nordic »

Here are further quotes from the above study and chart, with my underlining and additional details on select parts.
[p. 366] The Bell Beaker samples in Germany are characterized by the level of this haplogroup (48%), which, as we noted before, is thought to have differentiated into subclades amongst Iberian hunter-gatherer populations, as well as a higher fraction of U4 and U5 lineages.
[..., p. 367] A possible confounding factor could be the inclusion of populations that are very distant from these samples, so we repeated with subsests of the same data, also adding in a Sardinian dataset, bearing in mind the autosomal evidence that Sardinia is the modern population most resembling those of the Early Neolithic. Figure 1.2.2 [the colour chart above] shows a re-analysis [p. 368] that exludes the modern African, Arabian and east Asian populations, and includes all the Neolithic (LBK, RSC, BAC, SCG, SMC, BEC, CWC, and BBC) and Early Bronze Age Únětice (UC) samples in the same plot (red spots). The first component (F1, accounting for 22% of the variation), in line with previous observations, separates extant Europeans (western European in dark blue, eastern European in pale blue) from Near Eastern (orange) populations, but the new plot also suggests that all of the prehistoric populations tend to overlap more closely with the modern-day Europeans than with Near Easterners. The second component (F2, accounting for 17% of the variation) rather nicely yields what appears to be a 'chronological' gradiant spearating Early, Middle and Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age, respectively, with the Late Neolithic populations falling most closely within the variation of modern populations (both European and Near Eastern). Note that, in line with the genome-wide evidence, Sardinia falls closest of all modern-day populations to the Neolithic pole. The second component also begins to separate western from eastern Europeans, albeit with less geographical prevision than is seen with genome-wide variants.

More precisely, looking at both components, we see that the Corded Ware sample is the most similar of all prehistoric samples to modern [central/western] Europeans, with, if anything, a closer proximity to western populations; whereas the Bell Beaker sample, with a more outlying status, has a more north-eastern European orientation, closer in particular to modern Finns. The Early Bronze Age sample is even more of an outlier, falling at the opposite pole of F2 to the LBK sample, close only to modern Latvians. The plot of the haplogroups that contribute to these distributions indicates that T2, N1a, K, U8 and X seem to be the major factors determining the separation between Early and Middle Neolithic populations from the remainder, while J, V, HV and W, which Brandt et al. (2013) included in their 'LBK package', seem to have a minor role, if any at all. Haplogroups I, I1, U4, U2, H and U5a seem to draw modern Europeans and Late Neolithic populations, together with Early Bronze Age ones, into the lower left-hand quadrant of the plot.

At face value, this seems to imply that the mtDNA affinities suggested by Brandt et al. (2013) (Early Neolithic with Near East, Corded Ware with eastern Europe, Bell Beakers with Iberia) are, at least, questionable (although we should note that they are also supported by genetic-distance analyses, for example, and do not rely on PCA alone).

[..., p. 369] In fact, Haak et al. (ibid) recently proposed that R1b may have dispersed alongside R1a from eastern Europe, with the spread of the Corded Ware complex — although we should note that the R1b lineages seen in the Yamnaya samples are very divergent from those shared by both the German Bell Beaker samples and many modern western European men. Thus both an earlier spread from the east and a more recent re-dispersal from the west may be possible. We should remember that even if Maritime Bell Beakers emerged in the south-west, their spread across Europe was clearly not one-dimensional, and the Beaker complex seen several centuries later in Iberia is likely to have been the result of reflux following hybridization with the Corded Ware in central Europe (Harrison & Heyd 2007).

[..., p. 374] We should be wary of inferring a 'mass-migration' on the basis of the evidence so far. The sociolinguistic situation is of course likely to have been much more complex in practise than a simple equation of Yamnaya/Corded Ware with an Indo-European mass-migration (Wodtko 2013).
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