Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post Reply
MelissaePhylax
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Jan 2024, 04:24

Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by MelissaePhylax »

Image



Anyone with more familiarity than I on carved Inscriptions in Latin care to provide any opinion on whether or not I'm right in thinking this looks more like the runescript than what someone would scratch into something in even our current Latin alphabet?

Wasn't really going out looking to see anything related at all in reading about this particular thing so I was a tad thrown off.

[thread title edited by moderator]
User avatar
ott
Posts: 218
Joined: 08 Dec 2022, 16:16
Location: Drenthe, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Oddly Oera Lindaesqe Barrel Inscription

Post by ott »

Thank you! I think it says IANVARIVS., with the A's having the shape of À from the Fryas Standskrift.
It's only the À that is typically Fryas, but I did see it (and other individual letters) in more alleged Latin and/or Greek inscriptions. If I find them back I will post these below.
Wil Helm
Posts: 40
Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 18:18

Re: Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by Wil Helm »

Good profile view to see here

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/c ... ?rdt=46642

As one of the comments neatly pointed out: looks like a butter churn, with a pole-hole to churn with.

It must be me, but those hard and fast conclusions when it comes to ancient inscriptions and names like the link, I rarely follow:
"Ancient Roman Wooden Barrel with Owner's Name Carved in it."

Why on earth should the owner or user carve his name into a butter churn? Or his "God"?
Certainly if it is found close to a Roman fort, where production in all different area's would have been necessary just for daily life and a relative great pastoral community. Or trade.

I for me think it is idd Ianuarius as mark for the month the butter was produced.
Productiondate if you wish in a Romanesk fort/abbey area, maybe even done by priestlike pastors who like to note everything in their lithurgic language.
Wil Helm
Posts: 40
Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 18:18

Re: Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by Wil Helm »

Wil Helm wrote: 26 Apr 2024, 21:35 I for me think it is idd Ianuarius as mark for the month the butter was produced.
"Well Helm, if you are that sure ..."
(just a silly role play in plain sight) ;-)
"... then we must look for other kindlike barrels with only 12 different names on it. Untill this has been layed out, I go for Mister January"

:-)
Wil Helm
Posts: 40
Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 18:18

Re: Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by Wil Helm »

Wil Helm wrote: 26 Apr 2024, 21:35 (just a silly role play in plain sight) ;-)
Sssccchhh Helm, what a ... you are.
Wil Helm
Posts: 40
Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 18:18

Re: Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by Wil Helm »

Wil Helm wrote: 26 Apr 2024, 23:04 Sssccchhh Helm, what a ... you are.
Idd a schelm I am.
Welgemutst.
Goochelen maar, die woorden.

En nu we aanhouden als ook de naam van Wilhelm aka William.
't Is niet de gehelmde Wil, meer de Wel gehelmde.
User avatar
Pax
Posts: 115
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 13:58

Re: Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by Pax »

At first blush, I would analyse this inscription based on previous findings about Roman cursive. However, there is a lot of variation in Roman cursive, probably arising in part from the confusing mixture of Phoenician, Standskrift and Runskrift forms. I theorise that the Romans gradually transitioned from Phoenician letters to imported Frya letters. The other reason for the variety is due to the variety there likely was within Runskrift itself.

The inscription's letter R is a very clear Standskrift R, unlike the R found on the Vindolanda tablets where a more Carolingian lowercase r is used. Both this butter churn and the Vindolanda tablets are from Britain and roughly dated to the same period.

To Wil Helm, there is a tendency among archaeologists and historians to assume that inscriptions had some religious purpose, when in fact most of them were probably mundane. Alewyn Raubenheimer makes a similar argument in Chronicles From Pre-Celtic Europe. Thus, some inscriptions and even certain words like barbarian are misinterpreted. In this case, Januarius is a regular Roman male name meaning “of January”, probably because he was born in January, and he probably wanted to indicate ownership.
Vigtig Viden eller ligegyldig Info?
Wil Helm
Posts: 40
Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 18:18

Re: Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by Wil Helm »

Pax wrote: 03 May 2024, 16:16 To Wil Helm, there is a tendency among archaeologists and historians to assume that inscriptions had some religious purpose, when in fact most of them were probably mundane. Alewyn Raubenheimer makes a similar argument in Chronicles From Pre-Celtic Europe. Thus, some inscriptions and even certain words like barbarian are misinterpreted. In this case, Januarius is a regular Roman male name meaning “of January”, probably because he was born in January, and he probably wanted to indicate ownership.
Totally agree "probably mundane".
Btw do you have more info about dates, carving ...
Because seems to me that the carving is pretty "fresh". No expert in weathering though.
But the wood seems so much more worn out, than the carving.
User avatar
Nordic
Posts: 147
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 11:08

Re: Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by Nordic »

One ought to be wary of allowing on one hand the pc reading of any and whatever forms of letters as "Roman" or "Latin", and on another hand requiring absolutely pixel-perfect true Frisian OL script to be of any interest. Presence of letters like J, separate V and U, variant vowels with dots (ä/æ, ö/ø, å) should all be big pointers to a non-Roman (perhaps Nordic) influence, including in our claimed Roman everyday script.

Here in this case we have Roman/Latin IANVARIVS with lack of proper J and separation V/U, but with seeming OL A. For some reason N and U are written as if re-modelling of A (again - OL influence?) and the S at the end is bit weird, as if added later by other non-literate writer. If we assume that there existed OL Frisian culture and on top of that the Roman era, this is what one would get. If on other hand one assumes there was no local preceding text system, there are the oddities above.
User avatar
Pax
Posts: 115
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 13:58

Re: Odd Oera Lindaesque Barrel Inscription

Post by Pax »

I found it useful to lean on previous research into Latin inscriptions and at the same time include findings about Standskrift and Runskrift. I suggested that the Romans borrowed Standskrift and Runskrift and developed their own variety from there, but it could also be due to the presence of banished Kelta followers who influenced their Roman conquerors. When you look at other handwritten Latin like on the Vindolanda tablets (what a very Frya name, by the way), you see the same oddities like the long S but also different ones like an R that looks like a T.
Vigtig Viden eller ligegyldig Info?
Post Reply