examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

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Coco
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Coco »

The etymology of Kelta's name is derived from the Fryas term KÀLTA, which signifies "to talk," akin to the colloquial designation of someone as a "talker." Her given name was SÍRHÉD, suggesting that the Welsh speakers adopted her name (SÍRHÉD) as a verb, while preserving the connotation of "talking" (KÀLTA).
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Kraftr
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Kraftr »

I think it is more likely that being a ''sayer' was a title, as it was with the Fryas, and the völves, and that it was taken as a name in the OLM. To change the verb for talking to fit their leaders name or how she was called by Fryas is more farfetched. I find it plausible that apart from Siarad, Kelta was a common title for any Celtic mother or (sjaman)woman too, and that the story could describe a bigger 'movement' within the European peoples. The Finda (who I now believe are the Slavs mostly, though I suspect a link between Wend, Venedi, Veneti, Unetice, Venice and Phoenician is possible) represent a strange people with different religion and an existential threat by tribute and slavery. The Celts and Norse 'converted', as a brotherpeople. Greece/mediteranean had a different story told by the Minerva story, the challenge was more intellectual. The Adela followers, the Fryas, needed to preserve a record of these developments in a clear way.
Adela (or any of the famous mothers) might then (partially) be a concept too. Maybe western european Rosamund, or greek Hera -who's name could be derived from 'the mothertribe' (g)Hermania? Or, Adela can represent or nicely fit with an existing conception of the superego, or kingship, ones nobility ruling over the ego, passions and ideals(Kelta), that appreciates knowledge(Minerva). I want to find out if other Celtic peoples, middle and south Europeans, Macedonians, Goths or Lombards could have a similar saying like the one I'm hypothesising-something to make them feel as brotherpeople
(edit)
from Koebler Gerhard Altfries
  • ādêl 1 und häufiger, ā-dê-l
, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Legat (N.); ne. legate (N.) (2); E.: s. ā- (6), dê-l; L.: Hh 1b
  • ā (2) 8, ē (2)
, afries., F.: nhd. Gesetz; ne. law (N.); Vw.: s. -fre-th-o, -hê-r-a, -seg-a, -skê-d-ene; Hw.: s. ê-w-a, a-ft, a-fte, a-ft-ig-ia; vgl. ēwa* (1), as. êo, ae. ǣ (2); Q.: W, R, E, F, H, S; E.: s. germ. *aiwa-, *aiwaz, st. M. (a), Recht?, Gesetz?; idg. *oiu̯ā, F., Gesetz, Norm, Bündnis, Pokorny 296; vgl. idg. *ei- (1), *h₁ei-, V., gehen, Pokorny 293; L.: Hh 1a, Hh 153, Rh 584a
  • dêla 70 und häufiger, dê-l-a
, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. teilen, urteilen, erkennen, verurteilen; ne. share (V.), sentence (V.), grant (V.); ÜG.: lat. dīvidere L 6, L 15, iūdicāre K 3; Vw.: s. bi-, fon-, for-th-, gad-er-, of-, to-, tō-, ur-, ur-bek-, wi-ther-; Hw.: s. dê-l-inge, un-dê-l-ed, un-e-dê-l-ed; vgl. got. dailjan, an. deila (2), ae. dǣlan, anfrk. deilen, as. dêlian, ahd. teilen; Q.: S, F, R, B, E, W, H, L 6, L 15, K 3, AA 44; E.: germ. *dailjan, sw. V., teilen; s. idg. *dā-, *dāi-, *dī̆-, V., teilen, zerschneiden, zerreißen, Pokorny 175; W.: nfries. deelen, V., teilen; W.: saterl. dela, V., teilen; L.: Hh 15a, Rh 683a, AA 44


(second edit)
It keeps coming up in my head so I wanted to relate the connection I can't help seeing possible between "Adela", 'Othala'(the realm) and Libra which has an Omega symbolising Ewa. (this even brings to mind 'Alpha et Omega')
Othala-meaning-printable-page.jpg
Othala-meaning-printable-page.jpg (28.58 KiB) Viewed 4074 times
Libra-InfoGraphic.jpg
Libra-InfoGraphic.jpg (52.55 KiB) Viewed 4074 times
[/color]


Myth is a vision, in the way a human understands and remembers; a narrative. Discourse was mostly oral those times. So it's not exactly history, spiritual or filosophy, but all in one,'supertrue', better than separate imo, something to cherish, better than a fysical icon/totem too. OLM has less frills, so probably less artifact therefore then even the Illiad.
So (early) OLM could be a combination of true events and myth. In real history, there may have been grey areas, like some Fryas and brotherpeoples like germans and Goths were somewhere inbetween teachings of Adela, Minerva and Kelta. The Keltas still kept Rosamund, even Minerva(Minerva Solis in Bath), the Norse kept Freya. The Slavs have Freya too. I think Greek godesses, Dionysus, Apollo, Mercurius etc may have been attempts to mix some popular old and imported myths too I believe, as tribes mixed. Also some Findas and Keltas might not be as subversive or despotic as portrayed, and some of their business was well meant or justifiable, but it would be just what their ways would come down to in the wise opinion of Fryas, told in a way to make that (valid) point more clear. So it still is 'true'; a Minerva, Kelta etc might have actually existed or physically represented by someone, but they may embody (added on)principles, a social current, a pact, or ethnicity more.
Last edited by Kraftr on 29 Sep 2024, 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Nordic »

ott wrote: 16 May 2024, 11:33HÁGEST/HÁCHST (highest) of August.
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

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I found out that an older form of writing Cybele is Kubileya. The ending of that name seems obviously germanic, but what is that first part? Kubi relates to greek κύβος, (the root of cubus) which are dice, often used for foretelling etc. But what is the root? I propose Cybele to be from KU-BÊN-LEYA: the cow-bone-layer(dice-thrower).
ancient greek bone dice 500-300BC .jpg
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Nordic »

ott wrote: 16 May 2024, 11:33 In another thread, Fryas KJASAR (chooser) was mentioned as the possible origin of caesar (German: Kaiser) and HÁGEST/HÁCHST (highest) of August.
Old Norse and Finnish forms of Caesar are keisari, with the distinctive eastern (read: Finnic) vocal ending. I learned today the word existed already in 600s BC to 300s AD work Ramayana as title of the lord of north pole:
Kesari is a male vanara, and a figure in Hinduism. He is the father of Hanuman and the husband of Anjana. [...] While mighty Kesari ruled the Mount Meru/Sumeru [...] Kesari became his Chief Commander alongside ruling the Mount Meru. (source)
When 500s to 400s BC description of Uttarakuru land of north pole Meru mountain in Āṭānāṭiya Sutta is translated from Sankrit, the Bock saga story of Odenmaa emerges. A land whose leader sage Ukko Väinämöinen is called in Finnish poetry 'eye old man utra' and in Estonian poetry Utrekene. Whose messenger sons in Bock saga are detailed as Han Odens (Udens) Man, or Hanumans, going all around the planet. One of them being called Buddha, based on bud 'messenger'. Likewise, the Kesari of north pole land is father of Hanuman. Hindu Hanuman is said to be an incarnation of Vaiy or Pávana, just as Ukko deities of Finland were called pavannainen.

Furthermore there is independent evidence of the existence of Bock saga Han Odens Man 'He-Sun's-Man' in the medieval Mongol war story of Narayrgen 'Men of Sun', the northern Eurasian arctic people to whom Genghis Khan lost while the Mongols waged war against the Parossits 'Bjarmians' and furthest northern Russian-Finnish peoples (more on that here).

Furthermore, just as the Bock saga ruling families are described as families of sun and moon, the medieval Kesari lunar dynasty of India had their names as gupta ("the later Panduvamshis, like the Somavamshis, adopted names ending in -gupta. The Panduvamshi kings Tivaradeva and Balarjuna bore the regnal titles "Maha-shiva" and "Maha-shiva-gupta" respectively; multiple Somavamshi rulers bore the regnal name "Maha-shiva-gupta", source), one known echo of the above Uttarakuru/utra/Utrekene mythos is the Mandean stories of gupna, gufna as an title for uthra 'divine messenger of the light' and for Gubran the watcher of north, with a heavenly steed. This is of course the Gubben or Ukko of Bock saga Odenmaa north pole land, with his mythological horse Sleipnir (also attested from Norse mythology).

Kesari the Vanara is the story of Vaner (Bock saga) and Vanir (Old Norse), who depending on story version are children of Aser (Bock saga) or their close relatives (Norse mythology). The monkey element comes from the story of the first humans Frei (Old Norse Freyr veraldar goð ie. Frisian 'Wralda') and Freia (Frisian: 'Frya') as descendants of the monkey at site of original north pole point; in Norse saga versions these primeaval gods are of house of Vanir and the giants (ancestors of Finno-Norse lineages e.g. Fornjót 'ancient-giant' dynasty) are called 'kinsmen of apes' (Hymiskviða). In Bock saga the Ukko Väinämöinen line is the Frei and Freia lineage of former north pole land.

Therefore we can see the connections in Kesari story are multi-layered at depth and are not relient merely on any single pair of similar sounding names.

Keisari doesn't etymologically mean anything easily in Finnish (other than 'caesar, tzar'). Term appears in attested SKVR poetry in historical Christian era context. In Bock saga the leading Finns are noted speaking the proto-Germanic Root language (think as in written Swedish) and Norse sagas detail at length their ruling families' origins in Finland and repeative marriages with Finnish dynasties. Hence if we assume both Old Norse keisari and Sanskrit Kesari to be from Finnish keisari, it still needs (a likely Root-Germanic) original from, of which the Ott's suggestion of KJASAR is an excellent choice:

kjasar
Finn. keisari
ON keisari, Hindu Kesari

Furthermore, the Old Norse parallel term Kjárr, used alongside the seemingly Finno-Hindu-esque keisari, can be easily etymologised as a truncate form of OL KJASAR:

kjasar
kja(sa)r
ON kjarr -> ON Kjárr 'Caesar'.

Both Norse sagas and Bock saga associate valkyria concept with Odin, Valhalla and so on. Again we see here the 'chooser' element, whether we decode the word via modern etymology (valr-kjósa) or the old etymology (val as in Finn. valita 'choose'; Germ., Finn. val, vaalit 'elections').

Thus:
the term 'Caesar' likely long predates the usage by Roman Caesar family of Sextus Julius Caesar in 208 BC, in context of a northern European monarchy both in mythological and historical sense (a mythos based on a real royal line and geographical country). For Roman theories on the origins of this title-name, see here. None of which, by the way, explain how the Hindu or Norse forms, let alone variant Kjárr, came to be.
Last edited by Nordic on 22 Dec 2025, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by ott »

Very interesting.
I wonder about a possible relation between Vanir and Fryas wán-(*ar).
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