OL is the root model for select Alexander myths

[Nordic]

As is well known to advanced students of likes of Buddhism, Christianity and Islam, many cultural traditions carry on far more ancient myths, foundation histories and narrative elements. After finding out the textual proof of OL narrative's c. 1800s BC age in select chapters, I often wrote on similar advanced study themes linking OL with a variety of other cultural traditions of our world (these may admittedly appear difficult to comprehend to laymen readers fresh to OL topic).

Not sure if this text is written under the correct sub-board (Chronology), yet here we go again: I make the case that the OL Frisian account of two Finnish (Magi) army groups in Scandinavia and Gothenburg region is not only textually related to, or even the root model of, the Sumerian accounts of two Gutian armies in ABC19 and SKL, but even the role model of later Koka & Vikoka (Hindu) or Gog & Magog (Biblical) stories (Hindu Asuras Koka and Vikoka as substitute for Finnish Aser of Bock family saga). Especially so as the element of theological wrongdoing is present in OL and double so in the Sumerian version (ABC19); that the tale of Finnish generals Nórr and Górr (Norse version in Frá Fornjóti) is the model for Gog and Magog, the latter possibly meaning very literally the 'land-Gog' from Finnish maa 'land' and the fact that one general takes the land route while another takes the sea route (hence the unknown route in OL version). Another possible reading, retaining the same etymology in words, is that 'land-Gog' refers to 'Gothland' of Gothenburg (OL) or Gotland (Frá Fornjóti).

But the similarities do not end here! In OL narrative the Alexander figure is present as well. That deified man is found in a whole host of Biblical legends (e.g. a hero in Muslim Quran) and in those traditions he builds a metal wall against the Gog and Magog in a mountainous area. OL-wise we note that later Alexander seems anachronistically to take the role of earlier general Wodin (i.e. Odin), replacing an army with a 'wall' and the Scandinavian mountains with the Eurasian border region mountains. The metal elements are already there in the OL, please compare:

"[in Alexander legends and Quran an a]nother similarity between the two stories is that the wall will be made of both iron and brass. Here the Qur'anic translators use different words for the second metal: "lead" (Yusif Ali), "copper" (Pickthall), "brass" (Shakir)" (source; brass is a copper-zinc alloy)

"The Finns have stone weapons, while the weapons of the Magyars are of copper. [...] They praised our language and customs, our cattle and iron weapons, which they [Magyars] were eager to exchange for their gold and silver ornaments." (source: OL 052)

Generals Nórr and Górr as sons of king Þorri (Iku-Tiera, Ukotiera i.e. Ukko-Tiera) would most certainly be classed as Magyar level; Magyars of OL use both copper and iron weapons, fitting the military purpose of the metal wall in Alexander myth. Thematically the whole wall idea may be due to the Gothenburg reference in OL 052 ("Three poles from Godaburg, the Magyars were fought back").

The Alexander researchers note also the following:

One of the earliest and most influential stories, the Epic of Gilgamesh was written sometime before 2000 BCE. In one of the tablets of his many adventures, Gilgamesh travels far to the east, to the mountain passes at the ends of the earth. He slays mountain lions, bears and other wild animals. Eventually he comes to the twin peaks of Mount Mashu at the end of the earth, from where the sun rises. Here he finds a large gate, guarded by scorpion-people who protect the sun and forbidden anyone to enter through the gate without their permission.[13]

It is in this very ancient mythology, that we have the basic outline of the adventure found in the Qur'an and the Alexander legends: a powerful hero, who travels from west to east, the setting and rising of the sun, two mountains and a gate.
(source)

That the root influences would include also the Gilgamesh story in addition to OL is highly believable as the Sumerian echo of OL and Frá Fornjóti injects, for whatever unknown reason, the giant king Gilgamesh amid the the name list of Finnish Frá Fornjóti giant kings!

Gilgamesh.png (128.62 KiB) Viewed 1923 times

[Kraftr]

I just posted a video on the religion of Phoenicians under the ''Magi' thread, where most people focus on the Hungarians or Finns. And since I believe all to be in liege with or in tributary to the Magi I thought about how they tried to get into Europe at the landborder, from Krim to Finland, but also the mediteranean, conquering East Afrika, founding Carthage, probably gaining ground through Ptolomy, Flavius Ceasar etc on European soil. Would this fit the land and sea atack you seem to find in your analysis, instead of both playing out in the Baltic?
separate question;
Would Ur, Babylon etc be built by Finnish kings or were they referenced as ancestors for clout?
It's not uncommon for rulers to copy some myths for auspiciousness, like I believe you say Alexander did with Gilgamesh?
(I find it intriguing that Alexander might have been a "double agent" between east and west, since I learnt about king Xander of Albania in the 3fold German series Ott posted recently. Exalted as a hero defender while being in cahoots with the opponent).

[Kraftr]

one proof may be that the Finnish Per, Slavic Perkunas, are the masculanised version of the female Persian Per, who in Mediteranean became Ishtar and Phoenician Aphrodite. in Tyre.

[Nordic]

Thank you for the questions and sorry for the late reply. The issue of somebody called Magi always being tied to Persian magis the classical Greco-Roman authors knew to write of may be is something I do not necessarily support. It could simply mean 'magician' or 'seer', no different from the issue of whether a 'priest' or 'king' of one land is necessarily directly related to similarly titled persons of other lands. The Oera Linda narrative uses often confusing language here, for example on the issue of priests who are more or less painted in same colours regardless of origins (institutional vs. tribal viewpoint). Medieval world atlas map Tabula Rogeriana puts magis/magus both in the northern Europe and to China, the first usage agreeing with the Oera Linda narrative's worldview.

Alexander the Great is perhaps the best known example of all kinds of hero tales, many of which could very well be based in one way or another to his real-world journeys and eccentric ideas (or to his court advisers' ideas), and some of them could be later generic hero legends attached to his personality yet not originally stemming from the actual historical person. We have somewhat similar case with the Frisian, Norse, Finnish and Levantine (e.g. Sumerian) stories that seem to share the same names, dynasties and war stories. I personally make the case that:

• some Levantine dynasties and war stories were copied from northern Europe and not vice versa; and this loaning of material may have been forgotten (become confused) already in antiquity

• the original intent in the loaning may not have been to cheat or to steal, but to just compile all dynasty lists known to scribes together in an approximate chronological order

• later on dynasty list that were originally parallel in time (yet for practical reasons had to be written one after another on some surface) were later understood erroneously as successive dynasties (some names became duplicated e.g. Wodin as both Utu-hegal and Ur-Utu); at the same time it was forgotten that some "names" were actual tribal descriptors (e.g. Inka and his Finnish/Suomi/Chudes ship crew merged erronoeusly into "Inkisus", or "Inachus" for Greeks)

• that Levant was not barren and void of peoples, cultures or cities before 2000 BC; we have much surviving evidence from the sandy and arid regions for those, while the moist northern conditions combined with wide historical usage of decomposing building materials means very little if anything survives time here in north

• that many of the Levantine dynasty list names are genuine Levantine names (especially so with the timewise later names towards the ends of the lists).

It's a well attested phenomena that what is male deity in one culture is a female deity in another culture. One possible explanation for this is that there were originally always male-female pairs: a solar male and female deity, a lunar male and female deity, an agrarian and sexual fertility male and female deity (e.g. Wralda/Freyr and Frya/Freyja). For whatever reasons the evolution of god pantheons took a route to make less and less deities and thus some of the male or female deities were dropped as unneeded duplications (theological eco niche already filled), resulting in the seemingly one and same divine spirit being male in one culture and female in another. European examples include Per/Bergelmir and Perchta, Sampo and Sampa/Stampa/Zamper (Perchta), Lado/Zeus as a swan having an affair with Leda and Lada/Radha (Krishna's wife).

The geographical point you brought up is interesting. I'm not deeply familiar with those regions, other than general knowledge on the Gog, Magog and Alexander the Great tales and that all lands north of them were in antiquity and medieval era described as the lands of Scythians (also in the northern Fennoscandian and Russian end regardless of presence of actual ethnic Scythian peoples). I recall that Thor Heyerdahl in his later years studied those regions in his works (Jakten på Odin) - please read here for more details.

[Kraftr]

those are some valid arguments to me, some that I didn't think of and I love the way you explain them. But I'm not convinced I'm wrong yet And even if just for an interesting argument between us I will defend it some more, with respect and opportunity for your points. I believe to get somewhere one has to bite down somewhere and start wrestling.
How deep down south do you think the Magi you see are connected/influential? Are they the same that confronted Minerva?
You could of course be right that any enemy is bunched together as a Magi, but I believe there is truth to the supposition that there was a deliberate method and a ghost power, maybe just shared knowledge of submissive tactics behind the changes the Freyas observed culturally on the borders of 'the realm'. My hunch is informed by the knowledge of
-religion as a designed tool in Persia(like Manicheism, Mithraism, maybe Dionysos, Wodanism, Plato) Who all of course had to have some naturally develloping roots as well. Like Phoenicians being mixraced, or Scythians and later (eastern) European royals enjoying a lot of profit, freedom and support from their ultimate bosses.
-eastern tribes and phoenician tributary connections to blacksea/middle eastern elites.
Also I believe, but I have remembered wrongly before, that Frana drowned in the Mediterranean, and the Magus in the English canal. So they met the sea Magi in the south.
In regard to sex of gods; I believe it is important. First, I was thinking that maybe the female deity is a sort of anima, as a spiritual concept distinguishable from a hero. The videoseries on the mothertrope taught me that the mother is the most evident and peace invoking form of ancestorworship, and patriarchy, messianism is Eastern, connected to nomadic, cattleherding existence.

It is why I believe that Freya is the template for the other female deities in the south and east, because she is the (conceptual) ancestor of a race, not exactly a god. Though, to me a god is what is by greek writers called a Daimon, the spirit/protector of a people and that Freya is, and as such, I assume, copied by others but then wrongly as a daughter of Wraldas equivalent, Zeus, Sebas, Baal.
(Connected to this, I suspect the big secret is white people where at one time the most numerous, widespread of all people, and left much influence on other cultures, which is a currently unwanted story, though it could be the Phoenician band of brothers that was most widespread)
The very philosophical concept of Wralda and the ethics also; it could only devellop in a largely peacefull and thriving culture. The thoughts of MinErva were well expressed by her, but must've been built on a well-established tradition of rationality and mostly peacefull existence. And it was pushed out for these reasons too.

But I believe you are wellread in Scandinavian history and I'm not at all, so I'm very willing and interested to learn all connection to be made.