Love and the Faustian spirit

both within OL texts as in relation to other traditions
Post Reply
User avatar
Kraftr
Posts: 122
Joined: 10 Apr 2023, 07:57

Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Kraftr »

I have a feeling that the filosofical concept of the 'faustian spirit' is a darkened concept -the caracter of Mephistoles is too much of a Magi to me. The wager is old testament. Nietsche and Goethe had a way with words and specific concepts they wanted to express, however these subjects to me are like objects to be seen from all angles, and their perpective was embedded in a tainted European historical selfunderstanding. And still leads to vain projects, such as empire- and scienceworship and herodependency. Because a false culture needs a false god to hide the usurpings going on, and though these great writers loved 'the big story', they seem only aware of the even bigger story in this deep unsettledness they reconciled.
So Faust's torment to me is sick from our unrooting, his ambition and cerebral activity tainted, but the appeal of the coreconcept is a value that I prefer to see as an aspect of the original concept of love, for, as I am getting to in other posts I believe will and love are connected.
Just as the Greek already divided love in romantic, kinrelated or fellowship and humanitarian, there are more I believe.Maybe goodheartedness, honesty, friendliness, fairplay, the seven virtues, 'EWA', or, as I propose, Will; the things that suit us, fascinate us, we like to see and work towards, like selfdermination. All bundled up with respecting natures boundaries, teaching your blessings, of freedom, evenness, justice, prosperity etc So Love has a duty/wisdom as well as a desiring/libertyloving aspect.
Faust is frustrated more from being un-whole, than a pure manifestation of western spirit.
What are others' thoughts about this, since Frya is the 'god'of love, the topic would be the nr1 discussed and contemplated on back then. Also relating later thinking to this core may 'bring it home'.
So just to be clear my intent is actually mostly to discuss love and it's aspects more, filosofically, culturally and personally, than my 'disspelling' of Faust, that I just 'loved' to share.
User avatar
Pax
Posts: 94
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 13:58

Re: Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Pax »

Please take this as constructive criticism: you write as if we are inside your head, already understanding the many concepts to which you refer. This makes it more likely for your post to become a diary entry than a thesis that can create fruitful discussion. Could you please elaborate on the following things and how they relate to the point that you are trying to communicate (if the point is not understood, then it is not communicated): Faust, Faustian spirit, Mephistoles, “the wager,” Nietzsche, Goethe, tainted European self-understanding, worship of empire and science, hero dependency, Greek division of love.
Vigtig viden eller ligegyldig info?
User avatar
Kraftr
Posts: 122
Joined: 10 Apr 2023, 07:57

Re: Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Kraftr »

that is what I feared, I have to restrain my enthousiasm to post. I felt things fell into place discovering Frya, having struggled with bible, esoteric and Nietschian thinking. I have people on this board in high esteem because to me you are ahead of me, so that makes me assume you know and are past these subjects. The 'Faustian spirit' is a way many thinkers are formulating the 'european inborn spirit''. To reach for the stars, Prometeus. I feel this concept is a bit tainted, like it's a carrot to get us into war and believe in false progress. I pose that incorporating this aspect of our nature into the concept of love works better and could be also how Fryan philosophy could have seen it. Like I also think natural law is built on a concept of peace, and that can easily allign with love. So Frya, as symbol of love, as a basis of philosophy. What I try to do is indeed a personal search and probably can sound pretentious or druginspired. :)
Er Aldaric
Posts: 35
Joined: 21 Jan 2023, 17:42

Re: Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Er Aldaric »

We, Frya’s children, are emergences through Wralda’s life, in the beginning mean and bare, but always becoming and advancing towards perfection, without ever becoming as good as Wralda himself. - Primal Teachings 2
This is our mission statement. To advance, to explore, to reach the heavens all while retaining humility. Isn't the idea of the Faustian spirit akin to this? I don't know if equating Frya to the 'god of love' is too accurate either. It's not the universal, unconditional, 'Peace and love', kind of love.
it's a carrot to get us into war and believe in false progress.
I don't think any wars have ever been started or justified thanks to the concept of the Faustian spirit, and I don't see why the idea is harmful at all.
User avatar
Kraftr
Posts: 122
Joined: 10 Apr 2023, 07:57

Re: Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Kraftr »

thank you for adding a manuscript quote to your argument.A lot of my thinking I recognise in Nietsche, if not our irreverance of our teachers. So all goodwill to you. I admit my probable foolishness stoically before I start engaging with all these big things.
I'm always on the search for the underlying truths and separate the twists they got by time and loss of knowledge culturally. Nietsche knew more than I, and thoroughly, but OL gave me/us this little step of distinction added, to reexamine all history and Philosophy.

I agree we need greatness and excelence, and praise it to no end, but I have a hard time exaltating massdelusion around concepts that are in their basis incorrect and people 'ín the right spot on the right time' or who plays ruthless games the best. Kelta had fire and it's very lovable, and I tried myself to be like that, the rockstar, lead the fight. But with age, I see the flaws of rebellion, I prefer a shared common attitude that produces heroes, but most times doesnt depend on them, because the culture is stable. Not to say Nero, Boudica and others are not interesting to me. And I do admire Goethe and Nietsche. You could say I'm just romantic for simpler times, before all these Prometheans lit our witches'stakes, with stolen fire, proud of their 'cool new trick' or theory, blind to the loss, the lie of this progress and heroism. I think there is a distinction between a (even brutal) Frya hero and Nietsches machiavellian man of history-a messiah of sorts. And maybe the difference is expressed by a reconceptualising around Frya; love. Because I always liked the peace concept as a basis for designing natural law, or the karma principle, tao, zen and similar things in eastern religion.
When people ask me what I believe I say 'I believe things have meaning and/or value'. And that is basically your investment in reality. So; love. Nietsche said will. And even though he loved presocratics an zoroaster for a large part he was engulfed by the spirit and challenge of his/our times; materialism, abrahamic patterns, big plans, modernity. And I feel we are growing past modernity and it's endphase postmodernism, shifting into a more spiritually intense time, and we need something like a Frya religion, that is much like his zarathustra project. So I ponder on the question; is will not part of love, and better understood as one aspect of a broader view of man's soul, duties and liberties that we may all bundle together under rule of love. And can we with that restart this school, with these beautiful concepts, freedom, love, wisdom, right, that is rooted to Europe, and a force of stability and problemsolving. And actually blow away the annoying mystification of new age thought on love.

So we do need a great story, and I was back then theorising around Adam as a hero. But when learning about Frya, to me Nietsche's medicine as well as my revised Adam seemed masculine, messianic, hierarchical. 'Will' is cold. But OL gave me more. I saw a problem with Dionysos and mysticism. Or elitism without nobility. Roots before lofty projects. I appreciate greatness, but it feeds into narcisism and OLM broke this hardness for me.
I had to revisit Nietsche multiple times, and learn a deeper layer, and I'm not done, and ready to bow again, but last time I felt distance. Metaphorically; Napoleon did give a new elan, but I may miss the Sun-King more. And many heroes, especially the more modern ones, are a bit of a fad and tool of the forces that overpower us, ever more distant from our roots, while we are lead to the slaughter or building our cage by this magic that rides the coattails of our heros' ever greater superficiality. Phyric victories.
I am aware of flaws of woman too, so I'm not trying to say girlpower or that masculinity's role is not very important now. But the basis of society is women, and they need solid ground, like Frya's spirit, in our time.
The mothers were a detached arbiter between quarrelling men. So the borgs functioned as a low cost peacekeeping statesystem. Wisdom was part of femininity. Above that, a society needs an intellectual conception as a ward against chaos. Regardless of historicity OL gives us this human, rooting, just and intelligent perspective. And most of all no shamecultivation or religious slavery. I think it is the superior story to build a new philosophy on.
By the way I highly recommend essentialsalts as a YTchannel on Nietsche, I struggle reading him by myself.
User avatar
Kraftr
Posts: 122
Joined: 10 Apr 2023, 07:57

Re: Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Kraftr »

I'll explain myself a bit more for those who like reading a really long "dissident right" post, about my finding
OL to be so pivotal even if it would be fiction because I realise there is so many layers in my reasoning and shorthand writing. Hopefully it may serve your own argumentations and thinking around these topics.

I guess my objection is that "Faustian'is a kind of weaselword; it conflagrates multiple things: individualism, curiousity, willingness to change perspective, engagement with the world, but also imperialism, war, mad scientists, challenging the gods and laws of nature, dominering, utilitarian thinking. And I object to that created greyzone to project these things as a sort of inheritly connected spectrum and a sort of curse.
I'm not saying that Goethe and Nietzsche can be discarded as mindfucking wizards, and I'm thrilled to be rebutted, my main point is just that there is some fascinating thinking to be done here, and just express enthusiasm to provoke a conversation. I would love if people would quote OLM and write a piece about it, what it means to them.
I believe the nihilist era of Nietzsche is running thin and another horizon is unfolding. Nietzsches discourse of Faust, Dionysos or Prometeus is very coloured by his overarching arguments and rather more illustrative of his thoughts around them, and I critiqued it as such.

So, I didn't really get to Goethe's work itself yet.
The origin of the story switches some concepts around making it timeless, but kind of 'hidden hand'.
First layer; the original Faust was a real man, who behaved a bit like a Druid or Magi;travelling, doing magic and getting accused of swindle. A bit of a stereotype that could be originally used as antisemetic or anti-pagan. Anyway, a bit of a flat story.
Then Goethe washes that layer off and opens a deeper thought, makes him relatable as a german, Faust is like a true European in love with Wralda, a never satisfied endeavour, and frustrating, the joy of life. Mostly in a material utilitarian way, wich is a shortsighted way to engage Wralda. His influencer is also ambiguous; it could be a condemnation of a less dualistic pagan side, his Jungian dark side, a swindler, a nihilist teacher or evil incarnate. Mephisto the seductive liar, the biblical devil, waging the soul for satisfaction. One level Magi-type trick is thus by Goethe himself by "biblifying' this, by making the issue a sort of prison, like boeddism and Abrahamism does with life. But also, like Faust, we as reader are seduced and merged with Mefisofeles' project. There are so many layers, it is an enjoyable maze for thoughts. An artists' literary trick to make an everinteresting piece of art, wich unfortunately can be a capture too, like an idol(and I disliked Faust for that reason earlier). Like Nietzsche's Faustian/Prometean concept I don't dismiss, their works and points are still marvellous, and who am I anyway.
(I also find it intriguing that he talks of 'the mothers', female gods and Helen(nia?)of Troy, and kicks 'the old gods from their house' making us homeless spiritually instead of diasporic fysically like others. I'll have to check the audiobook out again sometime to dive into that, maybe Goethe knew more)

20 years ago I realised I want a sovereign free country and to protect the ongoing story of European culture, that all of the left was essentialy Marxist, and all modern thinking seemed to lead to a dead end street, and I predicted the future pretty well in some writing I did, shocking myself. The years before joining the forum I made a messianic drawing inspired by (Asha Logos and) what I took from Nietzsche, Torah and the most common Indoeuropean heroic storyarc. At the time I wanted to know what's on the opposite of progressivism, and got inspired by Julius-'the most right wing thinker'-Evola's credo to 'revolt against modernity'. So I set out to find my goal in the past, the root. I thought; opposed to the illusions around progress we need a concept of our root and identity, agency and spiritual mastery with the least distortions. Evola believed in the natural appearance and neccesity of hierarchy, the spirituality behind kingship/sovereignty, (as is also touched upon by liberal Jordan Peterson or Hobbes). It also lined up with what I learned from a rabbi I watched; that Adam was the first in line of this priestly kingship.
I also heard about myths like Odin, the creative act of Marduk vs Tiamat, I took Asha Logos' reference to archery, experiencing this revalation as a personal act of spiritual 'jihad', overcoming, kairos and will, a goal for my energy to work on what's right to not fall and stay down, my agency as a creator, the human hands of Wralda, the creator, it's workings and it's work.
And I recently found theres a story of an Armenian archer hero killing the king of Babel, such a badass metaphor. The whole Rittenhouse saga was not soon after I drew it too, made me think at the time all of it was a sign of a coming Messiah, or justice(the law of Ewa), or a psyopp tapping off of that kind of energy manifesting. I believe there is a real realm of human collective concious, daemons, or archons, thoughts and fears we have collectively at any time. A rithm or mood that is also being played by secret societies and we need to become players ourselves, creators. So the idea, and magic, is not without merit.

Come to understand recently Evola was not only a Daddaist(deconstructive modern and precursor to futurism), before going ultratraditionalist, but also wrote on magic. My analysis (and bias) is that I think this train of thought like Evola's (and Nietzsche)-toward strength and hierarchy- regimentation and witchhunts wether left-or rightwing or religious are the Magi types' playpen.
Thats why I find the OLstory lines up with what thinkers Oswald Spengler and Jason Jorjani say;- it gives warning of a fundamental deceit in our thinking patterns not being truly European but eastern magical that overtook the citystate/kinship ethos as Spengler says; -and that this native ethos's defensiveness was and is maligned as hostile to surface level feelgood universalist dogma, but actual subversion of what is correct. And too, -that our religion, messianism/semidivine demonslayer, apocalyps(note similarity to Northern religions), Dionysos, Aphrodite, Hell, despotism, and more- are eastern concepts. Also explainable by OL Magi's rule is Spenglers conception of a russian/slavic soul, that senses a hole of a lost European spirit, as its famous writers espouse. And as we know the continent endured despotic slavery before communism and Tsar. My 'discovery' expressed in my Adam/Odin drawing lined up the root concept from Torah/Genesis, Nietzsche, Evola, and mythology, I then found to be no coincidence, but a masculine Scythian/Persian hierarchy/messiah mold.

So I think maybe 'verfremdung' is part of Fausts'condition, a product of a Magi-poisoned environment. Uprootedness, losing our peoples daemonspirit, makes that we never find home to feel like home, haunted, lost in romantic thinking and naivity. The dark side of this psyche manifests as a subtle fight or flight response that is channelled into either romantic attachment to adolecence, or ego, materialism and it's fruits; Sturm und drang and Faustian spirit. But come to find out from the Mothers' legend- both accepting the calculated legislative(demanding submission) subversion of spirituality, or the naked, atheist embrace of universalism, science and economics of today- as the way of the world are not our only options or duty.
Er Aldaric wrote: 02 Dec 2023, 20:39
We, Frya’s children, are emergences through Wralda’s life, in the beginning mean and bare, but always becoming and advancing towards perfection, without ever becoming as good as Wralda himself. - Primal Teachings 2
This is illustrative of the clash between aspirational(Hellenistic-striving for exellence) vs legislative(Hamurabi-thou shalt not/punishment)
to be fair;Jesus'sacrifice would be to mend this faulty un-european base-authoritarian atitude within Abrahamics.
-But, it even ruined christianity later on, and recognition of his heroism entangled Europe to become part of the eastern sectarian divided brotherhood of bible sects.

Like Faust, the west, I too, growing up in rebellious popculture, have a romantic Dionysian, adolecent mind, constantly recharging in an naivelike honesty and wondering engagement, falling in love, identifying passionately, but within a consumerist fashionwizzed pampered world with a short horizon, no idea of time or worth. And I love the recognition to this avatar Faust, and our flexability to reassert and question again and again. But our recognition of Faustian pain and search gives a false sense of home and is, like Jesus, placeholder of a stable more true identity.
A wise (grand)motherly mentality, a reconnection to peace, love and reason is needed amid the strife. Something quiet simple but solid, beyond the masculine 'battle of wits' of sheppards of human flocks. Becoming old, you will end up with a caracter. One needs a certain age before getting into Kabala for that reason. With a caracter, instead of knowledge, one has some solid ground to place speculative and esoteric knowledge. A preemptive satisfaction before engaging the never ending quest for understanding and bombardment of information and wizardry, a kind of knowing without knowing, a sharpened intuition. Our own unshakable road in the world. A root. Peace. Anantha veda-oneindig weten. As proof; I found that my intuitions, having a feel for deeper narratives while scanning summaries and lectures, though sometimes misguided, were most times more helpfull in gaining ground than studying books meticulously did. Or that many unschooled minds reek deceit better than the learned(brainwashed). OL gives a sense of our caracter.


I'm not a trained filosopher nor have I read all that I reference or know it in depth, it's mostly Youtube knowledge. When it comes down to it I'm a student rather than a teacher, and overall and to the point I'm making vs the Faustian spirit, isn't that better than trying to be a hero or Messiah with inevitable blindness to your flaws? Rule like Kelta thought she would..
So I'm merely sharing my internet journey and amateur thinking on the subject (European spirit) because I think probably here search people most likely to understand. Because for me OL was imperative in this breakthrough, and nr1 reason for my excitement about it, more than historic connecting. I would be happy to learn more from people who are more knowledgeable on any of the thinkers or stories I mention. I actually tried to skip as much as I need to get to the core of what I need to understand to make art for the ages finally.
And I need to find or be shown more deep stuff in OL for sure.
When watching their podcasts I thought people like filosophyprofessor John Vervaeke with his analysis of the 'meaning crisis' were correctly diagnosing the problem of (post)modern thinking, but their (shepperd)bias and lack of 'Motherknowledge' didn't let these verbose intellectuals get to the crux it seemed to me. These smartest among us, before and now, staying in the same arenas could have unseen bias or even an agenda -that much could be identified by a barbarian like me.
OL answered this quest of Vervaeke, it gives an honest chance to embrace God, ethnos and self, mind, matter and history, a value to life, without abandoning reason and openness like most religion, nor submission to dogma or mysticism.
That materialism, dominance, idolatry, irrationality, anti-creation and anti-freedom not need to be part of our conception of an inborn core to (northwest)European thought and soul, as truly feels natural and is confirmed by the pejorative name 'unbelievers' their neighbors gave the Kalash people.
And it revivifies otherwise dead end persuits into history and Western filosophical/religious cannon, as hints of Frya inthere already did. Because there are plenty of connections and a next epoch of integrating thought there to be explored, when one recognizes the OL filosophy and cosmology, and set them against other pillars of 'western' thought. This is why I also like McGillcrist's more 'pagan-friendly' takes.

I don't think it is me who will do all that scolarship though, I lack in academic method and reading, I can just see it open up as an observer, and maybe inspire and gladly delegate to a scolarly reader of my post.
My main calling in life is art, not even truth or challenging convention, just to seek and emit inspiration, and create. In fact I see that our symbiosis with the Magi has lead to some great art. And the Fryas' plainness is a bit 'boring',as all straight and narrow is, but very recognisable for a Dutchman. The Dutch always tend to take the zest out of things with our who-do-you-think-you-are-mentality, which always frustrated my lofty art-desires. Even if Northern Europe saw very tenacious Protestantism, we are not wired for Messiahs, and the puritanism was more due to the desire for an independant church than for a divine ruler I believe.
I'm gen X and love doom and edgyness, delving into the dark,dramatic, forbidden, gothic, magical, superstitious, esoteric etc. Maybe it reminds of the dark forrests, winter, hardship, danger and evil mystics we lived through. It's fruitfull for art and music, so I don't even abhor all things I now consider Magi. We need to learn even.
Evola is a great example of this fascination that I found wanting after reading OL. And I think to any OL reader it is visible where the mindclosing and spiritual hiding behind magic of selfdefeat happens. The dark side gives a comfort to weakness in a very ego-gaslighting way.
And that is why I post this; OL can keep dissident right spiritually/filosophically inclined people to stay on their thinking toes lightly, while answering and inspiring their fundamental needs, as it did for me. It can do what Yahweh did for Jews, the Maccabeans were a kind of mirror to Frisians. Esther(Ishtar?) a mirror to Minerva?(like there's many switches of human hero to god(dess) and God/Daemon to human hero?
So still a lot of inspiration to be found in the Bible. But I would prefer Frya, like fresh air. Not just because she is 'ours'-though that is cool.
But because there is no disconnect between spirit and life.
Because it clicks with my experience with European common sense and love of freedom, life and unity. Levelheaded, Ewa.
It revalidates a peacefull but non naive understanding of racial and national identity.
Points to a very likely but hardly researched more deeper rooted pan-European identity, pre(proto)-Abrahamic and pre(proto)-pagan and shows the most important fight; Faith and our tribal right and nature, while actually exactly removing the touch of evil previous thinking on ethnic nationality had. Not a 3rd 4th or 5th position, but a very natural down to earth, very Dutch position.
It is -if not true- at least very inspiring and fitting for todays questions for all Indo-Europeans. Even after my best effort to believe that it is actually written by Haverschmidt, who did joke around with Sturm und drang culture of fantasy and romantic longing for authenticity, it would have to be with the intent as I am experiencing it now, and then it is an absolutely godly feat of great insight into psychology and Europe, while giving a great story that you don't even should want to abandon and dismiss. Like Tolkien or St.Nickolas-yulefest, or a great religion, it has never ending layers, and a (super)natural correctness. And is therefore at least as valid as any religion of filosophy ever was.

[sidenote;I still believe there is too much evidence for a Godess cult, eastern spiritual warfare, and things HaverSchmidt couldn't know and would be too much work. It rings so true. It is a weird expierence to be doubting, believing, wanting to believe and being okay with it being fiction all at once. I like that side effect even, the fragility that all good things have, it keeps me awake and going.]

I mean if we interpret it as an artwork of rebellion against the conceptions of our history and culture, I love it just as much! It is a kind of comforting euforic study for my beliefs and heuristics that have, with the coming of AI, hyperreality and fight over truth, become so poignant. Plus, Frya truly is a Daemon, a manifestation of our collective soul, even if HaverSchmidt was the first to do so.
And that's why I chose it as a worthwhile fascination. I think sturm und drang was much like the hippyperiod both a kelta-like error aswell a rightfull early complaint against materialism. And it answers my search (for a concept of our root, as opposed to the illusions around progress and an identity with the least distortions) in such a wholesome way.It portrays a plausible, intriguing and aspirational grasp of our peoples Deamon and prehistory.
To deny that Germanic peoples have a right to shape, cherish and pursue their own interests and caracter as a people is malevolent and even more evil than supremacist beliefs; it is actually hatefull and not at all how Europeans have treated others most of history, even now as we are smothered in immigration and thoughtcontrol about it, nor is it promoted by the mothers, rather the opposite. Genetics are expressed in behaviour, skills and culture. So protection of any of these implies protection of the others and there is nothing evil about that, in fact internationally we condemn ethnic cleansing, destruction of (native)cultures etc. and this international sense of justice was largely carried by the hard core of european morals.
As a teenager I had a 'never again' sticker on my lamp, and I'm still against ethnic hate, slavery, war and what I thought the sticker referred to; genocide.-including against our people. At that time however that seemed inconceivable, unless by nuclear war, so I wished that wouldn't befall others. Now I have to come to our defence, and find out that other ethnicities, opportunistic, less appealable to responsibility because they feel embattled,and not selfreflective of their spite don't have that mindset in general, especially toward us.

So compared to counterculture OLM should at least be a legitimate friendly cultural joy to be valued as much as Bob Marley, Tom Sawyer, Captain America, Baron von Muenschhausen or Harry Potter. Similar to how we don't even exactly know who the Statue of Liberty represents, but actually celebrate it and understand it on sight- also as a reference to european beliefs.
OL set me on the path that working through the bad fruits of materialism/democracy/liberalism/romanticism we don't have to discard them completely and get seduced into a black and white cultist worldview, damning religiousity, zealous with dogma and fighting without deep understanding. Romanticism, idolatry and Will to power are treacherous. Taboo, lies, human nature and suspicion make it hard to find nuance, and not walk into a bad outcome any way you feel you should stand on the most controversial topics. The Magi's mindfucking is a great metaphore for that sneaky 'selfdelusion-for-lust-of-power' that will betray in the end. It doesn't lay subversiveness at the feet of any ethnicity, since its present day inheritors can be sought in all types of religion, even Hare Krishna, maybe Ostrogoths and Visigoths, church, nobility as well as academics, novelists, opinionmakers, conspiracy nuts, mystery cults and initiation brotherhoods all over humanity. It joins the left and right brain; knowledge and reason with God, love and delecate agency. It mostly criticises the method and persuasive reasoning of deceit, the making of a spiritually hollow construct for a mostly mental overpowering, leading people to real world usery and slavery.
I conclude that OL in fact discards zealotry, persecution, oppression, last century's fascism- as at it's core alien to the true European spirit and race. That as a filosophical concept 'Magi-ism', and it's leitmotif/inheritance that I spy tainting all Anno Dominus/common era thinking and political disasters, was their cause and tragic scriptwriter at the bottom. I'm reminded of Victor Klemperer's book LTI, about how he noticed the corruption of language as an instrument of the regime.
It shows up again in the current pile of nihilist despair and makebelief, a culmination from the centuries of seductive but dissapointing plastersaint idolatous façade of reality and spirit. It was just not good enough, and we all always knew it. Nietzsche or Evola also did not truely escape, or reconstruct our soul, because they just built on older less obviously tainted myths. What bothered me about my Adam hero drawing was that his act of slaying the demonbird could be interpreted as satans(prometheus) revolt, a messianic connondrum, an impossible ascent of justice. And this makes the picture of Kelta so great to me, as an inversion of that, showing the rebellious sunrise pride as the seductive trap after her Magicounsel. But, of course any artwork can only say so much.
( to their credit, Nietzsche did talk about spite masked as justice, Evola and Nietzsche might also love Frya for understanding sovereignty and a Nation best understood as a religious concept, and most notably Faust has become much more present and deeper to me)
Thinking about it even makes me suspect that, like a studentmentality delivers a master, a male shepard-god will deliver a feminin herd nation, but a goddess just might produce a sound masculine stability of freedom, justice and peace, and the book might set in motion the next step for the European spirit. And it can get Abrahamists/other ethnicities to see the light even. All have a healing proces to do as such coming to terms with history's deceptions and our separate natures, before we can hope to melt or whatever.
So, not throwing out Machiavelli, real politic, bible, polytheism, lefthand path magic or anything as total nonsense, but this is what makes the difference to me and why I just can not get over the greatness of the Lady of Love, Frya, and why it was such a revelation experience sofar for me. And my country and people being Her homeground still blows my mind even more, and seems to fit and be needed so much.
Last edited by Kraftr on 14 Apr 2024, 13:12, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Pax
Posts: 94
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 13:58

Re: Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Pax »

Good post, but it was a little difficult to read. Suggestions:
  • Improve your typesetting. For example, do not add line breaks in the middle of a paragraph. Instead, write whole paragraphs as you would expect them in a book. If a paragraph is very long, you are probably trying to say too many things at once. In that case, break up the paragraph so that each smaller paragraph treats a subtopic or subnarrative on its own. My rule of thumb is to break up paragraphs longer than 12 lines, assuming ~72 characters per line.
  • Use parentheses less. Too much use of them makes you come off as sidetracked or indecisive. They make the text harder to read because the train of thought goes in various directions along the way. Sometimes, some pieces of information or trivia must be sacrificed so as not to distract from the main point; then they can be communicated later in a different context.
To the content of your post:

You often say Faustian, but it is not a common adjective, so to everyone else: Faustian means like the semi-historical legend of Faust, who insatiably strived for worldly knowledge and power at the cost of spiritual values, whence originates the “Faustian pact”, or deal with the devil.
Kraftr wrote: 12 Apr 2024, 20:20 I would love if people would quote OLM and write a piece about it, what it means to them.
If I were to write a piece, it would be on the divine balance between women and men, how they were intelligently created to have different strengths and thus need each other. The old wisdom in the Oera Linda book captures that balance in a manner unlike any other historical text. I lightly touched on it in this post. To me, there exist many harmonious contrasts in a yin and yang-like way, such as: Women are spiritual, men are physical. Women work with people, men work with things. Women tell stories, men deliver cold facts. Women aim for the heart, men aim for the head. Women were created to be spiritually strong, men were created to be physically strong. And so on.

I may be wrong; those are merely inclinations; there are spiritual men and female mathematicians, for example; but you could say that just as it is every man's dream to develop his physical strength to the fullest so that he may protect his woman and children, so should it be every woman's desire to develop her spiritual strength (or woman's intuition, or “sixth sense”) to the fullest, so that she may protect the souls of her man and children. Given this, it makes sense that the highest positions of spiritual leadership were the folk mother and burg maidens. You also touched on this topic:
Kraftr wrote: 04 Dec 2023, 12:13 I am aware of flaws of woman too, so I'm not trying to say girlpower or that masculinity's role is not very important now. But the basis of society is women, and they need solid ground, like Frya's spirit, in our time.
The mothers were a detached arbiter between quarrelling men. So the burgs functioned as a low cost peacekeeping statesystem. Wisdom was part of femininity. Above that, a society needs an intellectual conception as a ward against chaos. Regardless of historicity OL gives us this human, rooting, just and intelligent perspective. And most of all no shamecultivation or religious slavery. I think it is the superior story to build a new philosophy on.
Kraftr wrote: 12 Apr 2024, 20:20 A wise (grand)motherly mentality, a reconnection to peace, love and reason is needed amid the strife. Something quite simple but solid, beyond the masculine 'battle of wits' of shepherds of human flocks.
Moving on:
Kraftr wrote: 12 Apr 2024, 20:20 One needs a certain age before getting into Kabala for that reason. With a character, instead of knowledge, one has some solid ground to place speculative and esoteric knowledge.
I agree with this. It is an important point nowadays often forgotten by many who believe that this or that dump of information will make the world better. If the recipient is not receptive, then the information is useless, like being given an encyclopaedia you will never read.
Kraftr wrote: 12 Apr 2024, 20:20 I'm not a trained philosopher nor have I read all that I reference or know it in depth, it's mostly Youtube knowledge. When it comes down to it I'm a student rather than a teacher, and overall and to the point I'm making vs the Faustian spirit, isn't that better than trying to be a hero or Messiah with inevitable blindness to your flaws?
I am not a trained “philosopher” either; I have never read Nietzsche, Goethe, Evola and many other “celebrated” people. In this regard, I am rather plebeian. Philosophy that requires pages upon pages of dry explanation is a turn-off to me. Who knows what I am missing out on, simply because my priorities lie elsewhere? That said, Nietzsche gives me an atheist/humanist vibe, Goethe was a cosmopolitan and Evola was obsessed with magic and the occult. But I am sure they have written useful things too.
Kraftr wrote: 12 Apr 2024, 20:20 And the Fryas' plainness is a bit 'boring',as all straight and narrow is, but very recognisable for a Dutchman. The Dutch always tend to take the zest out of things with our who-do-you-think-you-are-mentality, which always frustrated my lofty art-desires.
We Danes — and even the Scandinavians at large — are likewise. In Denmark, it is known as Janteloven, a 1930's phrase that encapsulates the rural attitude of humility, just as we address each other by du. In the same way, everyone is always addressed by THV in the Oera Linda book, perhaps to remind the recipient of his equality to the speaker, cf. Ewa and the General Laws. Formal address (like German Sie) and honorifics came later with the entrenched kings and courts and those wanting the same prestige, the bottom feeders who wished to steal titles.
Kraftr wrote: 12 Apr 2024, 20:20 I'm gen X and love doom and edgyness, delving into the dark, dramatic, forbidden, gothic, magical, superstitious, esoteric etc. Maybe it reminds of the dark forrests, winter, hardship, danger and evil mystics we lived through. It's fruitfull for art and music, so I don't even abhor all things I now consider Magi. We need to learn even.
Funnily enough, I have talked to a few generation X women who liked those exact things, especially Evola, “goth” subculture and Halloween. Maybe there is a pattern.

Concerning Haverschmidt, you should consider giving Jan's videos a second watch, or perhaps order Chronicles From Pre-Celtic Europe. Then you will see how the forgery argument is practically impossible. Of course, I understand that the book is mainly spiritual inspiration to you. To me, it is a historical document first, spiritual inspiration second. That is why I am careful not to self-identify or project on to the book or make it into a holy grail, as such actions would detract from my ability to analyse it objectively like any other ancient text. Keep in mind that the Fryas were not explicitly Dutch or Frisian or any of the other modern-day branches.
Vigtig viden eller ligegyldig info?
User avatar
Helgiteut
Posts: 80
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 13:48
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Helgiteut »

I relate to what you have said, Kraftr. Less so Neitzsche, and more so Evola. Although I suspend my judgement on whether the knowledge of the East is good, I still look fondly on all knowledge that I have gained. In the age of the internet and "self-initiation", I think it is less dangerous to experiment and dabble with many philosophies as long as one is not puffed up with haughty pride. Though maybe we should come up with a better term than "Faustian" to describe the thirst and striving for knowledge.
Brea, bûter en griene tsiis is goed Ingelsk en goed Frysk
User avatar
Kraftr
Posts: 122
Joined: 10 Apr 2023, 07:57

Re: Love and the Faustian spirit

Post by Kraftr »

great reply Pax, very usefull to me.
>I'll edit it some more, there is art to writing, and I do work on those things, but at some point I just think post it already. And this weekend I saw many mirrors of my points repeated right after, like by these Dutch filosophers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4fbX0tS1_w (with subs available), they even refer to the ethymology of the word freedom, very interesting. Maybe a sign of a collective thought.
> yes I'm a romatic, or rather, as an artist I learned to be distant from a subject in a different way. It is not scientific, but like the other side of the brain. Still can be fruitfull, and I deploy my skills without need to being held to academic standards.
I'm an unapolagetic peasant in that way. The feeling of historicity has been electrifying, and something I'm still coming to terms with. I tend hard toward believing it is actually describing history, and don't want to screw up the science with my romanticism, so I tried to hold back posting all associated videos I watch. I wanted to put it coherently into this one reply, to get it off my chest for anybody relating to it., and to give supporting arguments for discussions with oneself or others.
>Your thoughts on man/woman relations is a very interesting topic, since it seems we have to start that stuff over again too today, so I love to talk more. Love and marriage is heavily implied as devine female aspects.
>I'm more into filosophy like somebody would use a library, I search the things I need for my train of thought, not to become an authority on the writers. Haven't read it all, some is also just the jist of it, as leared from podcasts.
I'm looking for inspiration. Something I can sufficiently imagine or believe, and be important for getting a vision of a drawing.
I have made scribbles of ideas on de '' vrijers'(lovers), man/woman, Freyr/Freya(who were not lovers, but siblings, but are they maybe symbols of the male and female parts of the tribe, and therefor lovers too?).
Pax wrote: 14 Apr 2024, 11:04,
Keep in mind that the Fryas were not explicitly Dutch or Frisian or any of the other modern-day branches.
.
Yes I understand that most those Frisians may have moved to Faroe Islands, Iceland, Denmark or elsewhere.
But their bones are here -in the tapwater maybe.
By the way, I'm not Goth, or into wicca etc. I do find those things interesting for many reasons, but not like an identity. Maybe it's a celebration of fearlessness? Sublimation of despair and nihilism? Of course it is cool to be edgy, but I like 'healthy wholesome stuff a whole lot too.
Helgiteut wrote: 14 Apr 2024, 13:53 as long as one is not puffed up with haughty pride.
This is a constant battle to maintain and restrain the ego, neither lose it's fighting spirit or be a servant to its foolishness.
And I learned a lot too, magic is a factor, just now people say Bernays, or Hollywood. But it is like all artistry a skill, and as an artstudent I felt inauthentic because all I knew was modern/postmodern bookknowledge, and I think many ''Magicians', our Sjamans, are actually stuck that way. Thanks for the replies sofar!
Post Reply