The Oera Linda Forum

I've been wondering about the Thesmophoria that were celebrated in Greece and if we see something similar in Germanic areas. It's theme was the abduction of Persephone(also refered to as Kore, the maiden) into the underworld, to represent the wintertime.
I considered Snowwhite; red/white/black symbolism, seven dwarves, dark (step)mother, temporary death and revived by love(Freyr?)Even better/similar; 'Sleeping Beauty'.
And I thought of the abduction motiv in 'Sinterklaas' where the representation of the other realm, black Pete abducts children or rubs of charcoal on their faces and where maidens are blessed that way for furtility(coming spring/summer), to find their Orfeo. Freyr was also a theme for gingerbreadpuppets if I'm not mistaken, so it could have been a 'wishbread' to give young women. And in spring we celebrate carnaval that is prepared on the 11th of the 11th, and it has a Prince in it's tradition.
(This bacchanal resonates with the Dyonisis festival in the city of Eleutherea, which translates to 'the free' by the way)
Probably a theme recognised in the abduction of Helen of Troy, maybe even the children of Friso?Could it be just another variation of Orfeo? Maybe it's a school of thought expressed by how a story is told. I'd say an ancient person would recognise the theme of Persephone/sleeping beauty and Dyonisis(Freyr?)in the Orfeo and Frisos children story, giving it a touch of mythology, but staying a story, like in an iconic movie of today, but that's just my guess.
Also pondering on the name Persephone, which is not explained through Greek etymology they say.
My suggestion would be; -phone (sometimes -phatta) relates to 'speak solemnly' or 'speak legally'. Per-se could be 'through her'
so I believe for now it could mean 'giving (devine)verdict through her'. One of her epithets was Thesmophoroi-the legislators, some others are 'mistress' and 'the savior maiden'.
This would also line up with my theories on the names Adela, Kelta and Syrhed.

This Dutch channel(in english) is aware of the Oera Linda and seems to hypothesise the opinion that the Finda were longskulled, horned or pointed headwear wearing priests. In this video(and he introduces it in the video before) he delves deeper into the Dutch wintertradition 'Sinterklaas' that features a blackfaced caracter, and where in some communities to this day a maiden-hunt is still part of the tradition.
Some thoughts when watching #20; are the magiars replacing the three matrones? Is the blackface the sign of the maiden 'marrying' Hell/Hades? (See the Artemis of Ephese/black madonna) A symbol of ripening.
Is the roman emperor the prince to get the maiden back, as a woman to be mother? The wickerman his travel into the underworld?Are Eros, Mercurius, Orfeo, Hepaestos, Attis, Odin and other male figures also different variations of the same theme? Is the blackfaced helper a helper maiden? To the Mater who would carry a staff for weaving and spinning the treads of life, and an allknowing book? Is the abduction and death of Frisos children, Abraham's firstborn and the Phoenician sacrifices -real or mockperformed- a dark spin-off of this story?
Further proof the original Santa was Frya(and this tradition was not imported); in Iceland there is a traditional story of Jolakuttur (Yule cat) a giant cat belonging to a mountain mother of 13 men that each visit children, and leave something in their shoe if they were good. The black cat and the 13 sons remind of the krampus/black pete. It is often said that Kramuslauf is connected to Holda/Holle/Hell, the hunt by her helpers. (Holle being the 'nightside' of Frya loving and teaching her children in the other world) Maybe Ny-helllennia also refers to 'the newly-hell-given'. Her dog to Cerberus/Fenrir? The Owl is of course a Bird of the night.

I wonder if name Parzival (Percival) is a male variant of Persephone? Sounds ph, f and v are all interchangeable.

Catholic days and rites follow the same seasonal pattern and interestingly there are holy days not only for this underworld/offspring connection but specifically for Virgin-Mother Mary in this season;
21 nov.; presentation of the blessed Virgin. In the Eastern Orthodox tradition, this is one of the days when women named Mary (Μαρία in Greek) and Despoina (Δέσποινα) celebrate their name day. Despoina is daughter of Demeter, and another name for Persephone.
immaculate(maiden) conception 8th dec (3days after St Nicolas)
nativity 25th -3days->
holy infants 28th 'Massacre of the innocents'
Feast of mother Mary last FRI-day of the season
3 days-> 1 January; introduction of Christ into the temple. In the Byzantine tradition practised by the Eastern Orthodox, the Meeting of the Lord is unique among the Great Feasts in that it combines elements of both a Great Feast of the Lord and a Great Feast of the Theotokos (Mother of God). It has a forefeast of one day, and an afterfeast of seven days.
The holiday is celebrated with an all-night vigil on the eve of the feast, and a celebration of the Divine Liturgy the next morning, at which beeswax candles are blessed. In Western Christianity, the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord or Candlemass, is also known by its earlier name as the Feast of the Purification of the Virgin or the Meeting of the Lord.

In my thread dedicated to the reconstruction of a Fryas calendar, I cited the following passage from Bede's Reckoning of Time:

[In olden time, the English people] began the year on the 8th kalends of January [25 December], when we celebrate the birth of the Lord. That very night, which we hold so sacred, they used to call by the heathen word Modranecht, that is, “mother's night,” because (we suspect) of the ceremonies they enacted all that night.

And speaking of a blackfaced godess let's not forget Kali!
Were the Celts Tantrics? The Celtic Kali and Bhairava (Mythstream)Taliesin's map
thinking about the mythical themes being present in some OL stories, I wonder if they were made into 'real' stories, like an archetypical heroic journey into a 'reallife'movie.
Despite my findings I'm not discarding the hypothesis that it describes actual history; maybe mythical themes were created by them or added into it.
There is a pattern in known historic events that allign, and a logic to assume it preserved the most ancient parts of European paganism. And maybe they recognised the myth playing out in real life and based their whole attitude/spirituality on that frame. Like the wild hunt got adapted multiple times, but 'zwarte piet' still represents our cultural identity.

But that asside, a possible reason for the Fryas to make myth into real stories reflects a Dutch way of making things down to earth. 'What is this fancy story to me, all there really is in the world is people doing and thinking things' is the attitude I mean. And because of this they could have develloped a real story fitting a common sense 'monotheist' or 'agnostic' type national spirit.
More purist simple and by that possily more conservative of the main aspects of the oldest teachings at the root of many indoeuropean cultures. The main road where others cultivated away from by storytelling, artstyles and mysticism.

Nordic wrote: ↑11 Dec 2024, 12:05 I wonder if name Parzival (Percival) is a male variant of Persephone? Sounds ph, f and v are all interchangeable.

Parcival: the hero's journey or korios' task. It seems the male side of the ritual. In Borkum, north German island the men go on a whalehunt and do a ritual when coming back similar to other rituals around st. Nickolas(chasing and spanking women).
-cival reminds me of welsh sjeffal relating to horse and swiftness. A carrier of sorts, maybe carrying the maiden from hell, 'per' or 'over' the threshold so to speak, to home. Horse(riding) was used as a symbol of aristocracy.
The Initiatic Quest for the Grail-Philosophicat
Parcivals horse and spear iconography makes me wonder if this was incorporated by the Fryas into Kelta. In other cultures it was the bow I believe(like Diana)I saw somebody make the association to the starsigns of winter; Saggitarius(bow, centaur), Capricorn(bock, cristmassgoat krampushorns, cornocopia) and Aquarius(water, EWA, primordial potential)
Paradigm Shift made another video, and he quotes OL a lot.

some spin off speculations;

• The body of the real st.Nickolas has possibly recently been found in Turkiye. He became the savior of children. It's lesser known he was also the patron saint of seafarers, possibly replacing Nyhellennia. It makes me think arrival by boat could have always been part of the rituals, like it is today for st.Nikolaas. Or there may be some Fryas link where St.Nickolas churches were?
• Stella Maris, an epithet for Mary, was also an epithet for Isis, Aphrodite, Venus and Ishtar. מרים (Maryam)is translated as drop of the sea. yam=sea, but mar'' in translate is 'bitter'(like death? Did Jesus come out of the primordial waters?
  Edit: the bitter water ordeal is a old testament ritual when a woman is suspected of adultery; drinking a 'bitter water' would kill or bless her)
• Not only is he connected to Poseidon, but there is a myth where st. Nickolas slaughters and resurrects the daughter of a host.
• Could the Nether-lands, or Hol-land (secretly) refer to the underworld and vrouw Holle?
• Could Nix, night and Nickolas be connected?
• The cognates of nacht and nocht(nut) stay pretty similar between cultures. Black pete trows and gives nuts to children.
• In Celtic religion there is the Cailleach the dark Crone of winter. Rides a wolf, has giant sons, is the oldest(the winter incarnation of the Goddess)Many matching rituals. Cybele, Xi Wiangmu and The Cailleach are all associated with mountains.
• In the bible there is Lilith(from layla:night).
• Hermeticists (magiclovers) say it all comes from Isis, Ishtar etc who got popular in Rome and then spreading, but I think all the evidence proves a much older root. I think it could rather be a sign that Egypt may have been much more 'European' in deeper history- although matriarchy/the Goddess/motherworship seems to be present in Africa too.
• Pluto The Wise God of the Underworld would be the male version.

I've made a modern/sjamanic idol of this Hell connected NyHellennia, to find form with these elements.