The Oera Linda Forum

Other than linguists and language historians may not know that the ABCDEFG... order of our alphabet is an unintended sideproduct of our archaic writing system pedagogy. The ancient peoples grouped the original root-level spoken sounds as to part of the mouth used to spell them out. This was written down or carved into wood or stone, often into so-called 'hornbooks', to show pupils the groupings. When the sounds were began to be read in an unintended manner, the ABCDEFG... order emerged. This is also why it constantly jumps from vowels to consants. The is best explained by researcher Laurence Waddell and the Wikipedia article on hornbooks.

The OL alphabet does not use the same ABCDEFG... system as does the likes of old Latin, pagan Finland-Swedish (seen here), modern English alphabets and such. Nor was the OL scribe writing the manuscript pages concerned with any pedagogical hornbook style of groupings, as the letters are just casually listed one after another on OL MS 046. The good news is that the original OL alphabet behind the MS one does conform to actual sound grouping and thus is not a random ordering of sounds but a real alphabet. A reconstruction is given below, this time based instead of a hornbook model on a "bucket" iconography seen from ancient Italy to Sumeria to Hindu lands and the Americas. For English language readership it may be needed to mention that in Northern European languages H is spelled almost the same as O (H and O as in holy) and J is spelled almost the same as I (as the Y in yippee). Different As, Os, Us and Es may represent the Å, Ö (Ø, OE) and Ä (Æ, AE) variant letters still present in Nordic languages. Below is an example of how an old European reading and writing pedagogical tool could take form of such a reconstructed "bucket". This example (Es 25) teaches Old Italic script to a Finnic reader by showing the 'correct' (oikea) mark shape as repeated OEKA line and includes at the handle a dedication text to goddess Rhea (Freya i.e. Frya?). Time for a quote from OL MS 045, note in context that in OL language Italy is 'Near-Greekland' (HÉINDA KRÉKA.LANDA):

They later learned our script — specifically the Finns, the Tyrians and the Greeks — but they were not well aware that it was based on the Yule and therefore must always be written sunwise. [source: OL MS 045]

Furthermore, that the above reconstructed grouping must have existed in old era in some form is shown by comparison to Robert Macalister's studies on old Celtic script that uses the exact same vowel grouping of AOUEI (underlined in blue): (source: Robert Graves, The White Goddess (1948), p. 114-115, Celtic alphabet explained by Macalister). The OL script may even be the enigmatic root script behind the Ogham script.

As noted by Jan Ott back in 2012, the OL alphabet may have well been reported in Apuleius' work Metamorphoses (2nd century) as 'rounded like a wheel' when describing a cosmopolitan mystery cult ritual:

And holding my arm affectionately the old man then and there took me out to the doors of the great temple, and after the solemn ritual of opening them and the performance of the morning sacrifice he brought out from the holy of holies some books written in unknown characters. Some of these represented various animals and were shorthand for formulaic expressions, and some were in the form of knots or rounded like a wheel or twisted at the ends like vine-tendrils, to guard their meaning against the curiosity of the uninitiated. From these he read out to me what I needed to procure for my initiation.
[Source: Apuleius, The Golden Ass, bk. 11, ch. 22]

Relevant here is that all of the listed foreign scripts are real-world scripts:

• animal script ↔ Egyptian hieroglyphic script or Danish Gallehus horn figure script

• knot script ↔ Celtic Ogham script

• twisted vine-tendril script ↔ Indian Brahmi script.

As all depicted were real scripts and the Roman author obviously was not referring to Latin and Greek scripts, the round script seen in OL MS is an obvious match.

Oera Linda book on how the numbers came to be:

The ‘witkeaning’ — that is: sea king — Godfreyath the Old made separate counting numbers based on the Yule, for both the Standscript and the Runscript. (Source: OL MS 045)

This seems to be literally true as seen here: Note that the number zero 0 has a letter to it that does not reach to the opposite surrounding edge and thus was counted as null. Number 1 is the H as it streches from one end to another. Number 4 is the Y, perhaps because the I looking one had already been reserved for the number 1.

The running Runscript numbers are just further derivates of the the Yule based ones and as such are not directly stemming from the Yule system. If OL story is true on the origin of the numbers, this is then the real origin of so-called "Arabic" (European) numbers: successive letters A-H-Ü-E-Y-B-P-T-TH-D remade into variant markings denoting numbers. It may also explain why Frisian related Anglos culturally start counting from 0 (e.g. building floors) and not 1, unlike most metric system using peoples for whom 1 is the very first number.

For comparison purposes, below are the Arabic numbers from work James Murphy, The Arabian antiquities of Spain (1815), plate LXXXVII. If anyone has good photos of these please share them with us. I'm unable to find photos of them, even took some years back the effort to write paper letters to Spanish academics studying Arabic era in Spain and never got any response back.

This is interesting, but I don't understand all of it. For example, why do you not relate 1 to I? Why is P related to 6 and D to 9?

This seems to be literally true as seen here

Unclear what you mean. "Counting numbers based on the Yule" i.m.o. simply means they fit into the 6-wheel. I can see some logic behind 0, 1, 2, 3; the others not yet.

Perhaps the numbers can be related to 'elements', since not only are the words for 'fire' and 'four' very similar (in Fryas and Frisian) and it was named as 4th in Fryas Tex, also the element fire in Greek tradition was related to the tetrahedron (having 4 sides).

FJUWER THINGA SEND TO JVWE NOT JÉVEN. MITH NÁMA. LÒFT. WÉTER. LÁND ÀND FJUR.
Four things have been given you to use, namely: air, water, land, and fire.

Likewise, 5 could be related to life (FIF - vive), 6 to procreation (SEX), 7 to reason/understanding (SJVGUN - sjoege), 8 to assembly/counsil/respect (ACHT). (The word for 11 could mean one-life, the word for 12 two-lives?)

... Spanish academics studying Arabic era in Spain and never got any response back

Perhaps it is easier to find someone living near Alhambra, being on holiday or working there, and ask him/her to find it and provide a photo.

ott wrote: ↑15 Jun 2023, 05:28 This is interesting, but I don't understand all of it. For example, why do you not relate 1 to I? Why is P related to 6 and D to 9?

Because in Godfreyath doctrine they had to be in same exact order as the letters in the main alphabet grouping, starting from vowels A-(H)O-U-E-I(JY). As seen further above in the hornbook or bucket model, or in foreign A-1, B-2, C-3 etc numbering systems, but starting from zero instead.

Due to that restriction he could not horizontally relocate the most visually suitable letter mark to the number (e.g. one drawn line for 1, two drawn lines for 2...), but had to choose the most suitable mark from each already given vertical set. Furthermore, in secondary operation he had to invert-reverse the shapes so that users would not confuse them with the actual alphabet letters denoting spoken sounds. This is why they have simple geometrical reversals, simplifications or extensions of the lines to make them easier to write. As this second phase was not doctrine bound, he had the individual freedom to choose whatever final shape he wanted for each letter.

We also see this arbitrary geometric reversal in the medieval Arabic numbers, where 2 and 3 are inverted (3 is an upside down double-2), 4 and 5 do not look like our corresponding numbers. At some point these were reversed, perhaps due to confusion with letters (e.g. confusing 2 below with letter T). "The first Arabic numerals in the West appeared in the Codex Albeldensis in Spain. (Wikipedia)"

Hyginus tells us in his Fabulae:

§ 277 FIRST INVENTORS: The Parcae, Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos invented seven Greek letters — A B H T I Y. Others say that Mercury invented them from the flight of cranes, which, when they fly, form letters. Palamedes, too, son of Nauplius, invented eleven letters; Simonides, too, invented four letters — Omega E Z PH; Epicharmus of Sicily, two — P and PS. The Greek letters Mercury is said to have brought to Egypt, and from Egypt Cadmus took them to Greece. Cadmus in exile from Arcadia, took them to Italy, and his mother Carmenta changed them to Latin to the number of 15. Apollo on the lyre added the rest. (Source)

The Mercurius reference may connect to the Anglo-Saxon and Finnish ideas of Mercurius-Odin and Odenmaa as the source of letters (Solomon and Saturn, Bock saga). The order of seven letters ABHTIY is interesting, as it shows some Phoenician and/or Frisian influence. Simonides additional letters show Frisian and Phoenician influence (in that order), Epicharmus letters Phoenician influence. See below:

Thanks to user El Aldaric noticing a related video on subject matter of ancient Central European 2000-1600 BC (pre OL Celtic) standardised weigh units akin to modern grams and kilograms. With evidence of decimal use (in usage case numbers of 10 g, 1 kg, sets of 5 and 10), this all supports the archaic origins for the OL and SKVR numeral systems and being genuinely independent of any assumed later "Arabic influence".

What a rich thread, a lot of new info for me to absorb with many connections. I’m fascinated by these ‘buckets’ and ‘ horn-books’ - that’s the current rabbit hole you’ve got me going down;)