Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Dating of the various texts in relation to other sources, archaeology, geology, genetics etc.
User avatar
ott
Posts: 180
Joined: 08 Dec 2022, 16:16
Location: Drenthe, Netherlands
Contact:

Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by ott »

In Codex Oera Linda:
ch. 16d. Adel and Ifkia
Friso (...) His first son (...) named Adel (...) he got the nickname ‘Atharik’
ch. 19f. Askar’s Failure
they chose Alrik as military leader. Alrik was Askar’s kinsman

Wikipedia:
Athanaric, “king of the Thervingian Goths and Visigoths”, would have reigned from 369-381 CE
Alaric I, ‘king of the Visigoths’, would have reigned from 395-410 CE

If these were the same, it would be a spectacular clue for chronology revision.

In Liko's letter (ch. B): "year eight hundred and three in Christian (KERSTEN) understanding" may actually refer to a more original timeline based on the narrative of KRISEN/BUDA/YES-US, Thus, 1600 + 803 = 2403 after Atland sank.

In that case, Hidde may have erred when he wrote: "the three thousand, four hundred, forty-ninth year after Atland sank. That is in Christian (KERSTEN) reckoning the twelve hundred and fifty-sixth year".

The time of Adela would have been c. 2000 years ago in stead of c. 2600, Friso and Alexander c. 1700 years ago.

Can anyone:
  • find out what are the most reliable sources about these (and other?) Visigoth kings?
  • see if there are more clues connecting such sources to Oera Linda?
I suggest we focus on chapters 14d-e, 16a-e, 19 (classical dating from c. 326 BCE onwards).
User avatar
Helgiteut
Posts: 74
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 13:48
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by Helgiteut »

I want to say how glad I am that we can freely speak about these things. I wonder if you have read the theories of Gunnar Heinsohn. He is like Heribert Illig (They co-authored a book,, though Gunnar is more respected for his theories on historic demographics and genocide) One method of Gunnar's is stratiography, looking at the layers of archeology to determine the age of a site.
Brea, bûter en griene tsiis is goed Ingelsk en goed Frysk
PýrKlépsas
Posts: 34
Joined: 01 Jan 2023, 17:44

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by PýrKlépsas »

This is just little I came up with:
ott wrote: 08 Feb 2023, 10:41 In Codex Oera Linda:
ch. 16d. Adel and Ifkia
Friso (...) His first son (...) named Adel (...) he got the nickname ‘Atharik’
ch. 19f. Askar’s Failure
they chose Alrik as military leader. Alrik was Askar’s kinsman
https://heimskringla.no/wiki/Ættartölur ... jarbók_SN)
Ættartala frá Höð : Alreks
Ættartala Haralds frá Óðni : Alreks*

http://www.heimskringla.no/wiki/Íslendingabók
12. Langfeðgatal : xii Alrekr (see also: vii Visburr**)

http://www.yokoiscool.com/arngrimur1.html
Rerum Danicarum fragmenta, part 2 : Alricus

* Note: ''The king who ruled over Turkland was called Burri. His son was Burr, who was the father of Óðinn Ásakonungr, the father of Freyr, ...'' etc. (source: http://www.yokoiscool.com/aett4.html)
''... his son Burri, whom we call Finn, his son Frjalafr, whom we call Bors, his son Voden, whom we call Óðin. He was king of the Turks. ... '' etc. (source: http://www.yokoiscool.com/aett6.html)
What if not Turkey or Turkland, but Tyrians?
ott wrote: 08 Feb 2023, 10:41 Wikipedia:
Athanaric, “king of the Thervingian Goths and Visigoths”, would have reigned from 369-381 CE
Alaric I, ‘king of the Visigoths’, would have reigned from 395-410 CE
** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths ... /Visigothi

Skjöldunga saga (yokoiscool) index: http://www.yokoiscool.com/skjoldungasagaindex.html

Hopefully this is of use
User avatar
Nordic
Posts: 122
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 11:08

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by Nordic »

The OL usage of KERSTEN with letter E instead of usual letter i (Christ) seems to be a real thing (more here).

I do not know of any specific reasons to assume for the two Christian era letters to refer to any other eras than 803 and 1255 (Anno Domini system). Especially so as in the older letter Christianity is seemingly a recent affair and in the newer it's implicitly an established (non-contentius) part of the background. But let's for sake of argument assume there is some wonkery in the chronicles – I and others have noted shortening of time horizont in likes of Quran, Sanchuniathon, Norse sagas etc.
Fomenko-History-Fiction-or-Science-bk1-ch1-note.png
Fomenko-History-Fiction-or-Science-bk1-ch1-note.png (52.89 KiB) Viewed 974 times
If the Alarik or Alrik (ch. 19, MS 209: ÁL.RIK) at the very end of the book is equated with early 5th century Alaric I (Alarik), there are some fitting chronological matches not immediately apparent from OL narrative alone. The OL notes that in Alarik's days:
The other tribe that roamed closer by called them­ selves ‘Franks’, not because they were free, but because Frank had been the name of their first king. [...] The Gools did not know who he was, so he was later exchanged for a high-ranking Gool that Askar’s army had taken prisoner. [...] Meanwhile, the Magyars [top-level Finns] were traversing the lands of our neighbors more boldly than ever before. Near Egmond [Frisia], where the burg Forana had once stood, they built a temple, even larger and richer than Askar had built at Staveren.
The Frankish story is almost the same as reported in 7th century, or about 200 years later:
Again splitting into, two groups, half of them entered Europe with their king Francio. After crossing Europe with their wives and children they occupied the banks of the Rhine and not far from the Rhine began to build the city of "Troy" (Colonia Traiana-Xanten)
[source: Wikipedia on Franks; for comparison the German city of Trier was known in medieval era as "Babylon" and Norse sagas repeatedly as trope blend Troy/Turkey with Finland (perhaps via city of Turku/Turci)]

The Gools or Gallis of Gaul, of Celtic roots, were certainly still around in the late 300s and early 400s. The Galli trans-sexual religion was at the time part of the Roman culture and there had even been a wannabe-trans emperor who paraded a black stone, just as in the original Galli religion (a theme later picked up by Islam).

If we assume that the Finnish temple building at western continental Europe was succesful part of their larger operation, one would assume Finnish influences for later Germanic peoples of that same general region. For which we have both literary and DNA evidence. A notable theme in the Germanic culture of the same approximate region is the Beowulf and the Frisian-Danish battles. These are approximately dated at 6th century via the Hygelac connection. Beowulf is descedant of Wægmund or Väinämöinen of Finns. A good match with Magus and the sage-seer class constituting the Magyars. Maybe even the part about swimming in seas and being cast ashore "on Finna land" (Beowulf line 580) is a direct reference to the similar Finnish-Frisian-Egyptian swimming themes of Väinämöinen or Wenamun. Combined with the previous and OL one can even wonder if the Finn of Finnesburg means 'Finn' of 'Finn-castle', half-Frisian and half-Finnish ruler in Frisia..? Then we have also the DNA evidence:
However, we also see ancient Swedish-like and Finnish-like ancestry in the westernmost fringes of Europe, and Danish-like ancestry in the east, defying modern historical groupings
[source: Population genomics of the Viking world]
Timewise this is, post-Alaric I and pre-Viking era, a perfect match with OL narrative.
User avatar
ott
Posts: 180
Joined: 08 Dec 2022, 16:16
Location: Drenthe, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by ott »

Apologies for not yet replying to the answers.

I will first add some more possibly related names:

Ascaric was the name of a 'Frankish' (?) war leader, presumably of the Bructeri tribe.

Although the name Ascaric seems to be explained differently, the name might be related to ÁSKAR (Askar a.k.a. Black Adel) of Oera Linda (ch. 19a-f). Likewise, 'Bructeri' may be related to OL's BROKMANNA (translated as 'Brokmen', ch. 14g).
User avatar
ott
Posts: 180
Joined: 08 Dec 2022, 16:16
Location: Drenthe, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by ott »

I have become more interested in sources about the Goths and think there is much to be discovered there, of relevance to OL studies. For example, the name 'Ermanaric' is obviously from Fryas HÉR.MANNA.RIK. Historians seem to have no clue about this name. Wikipedia:
"The first element of the name Ermanaric appears to be based on the Proto-Germanic root *ermena-, meaning 'universal'."
Compare 12-years old blog post about possible etymology 'Heruli', from HÉR.LJUD ('army people').
User avatar
Helgiteut
Posts: 74
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 13:48
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by Helgiteut »

ott wrote: 24 Feb 2023, 09:34 I have become more interested in sources about the Goths and think there is much to be discovered there, of relevance to OL studies. For example, the name 'Ermanaric' is obviously from Fryas HÉR.MANNA.RIK. Historians seem to have no clue about this name. Wikipedia:
"The first element of the name Ermanaric appears to be based on the Proto-Germanic root *ermena-, meaning 'universal'."
Compare 12-years old blog post about possible etymology 'Heruli', from HÉR.LJUD ('army people').
It would also seem that Herman/Arminius of the Chatti, was only a title.
Brea, bûter en griene tsiis is goed Ingelsk en goed Frysk
User avatar
ott
Posts: 180
Joined: 08 Dec 2022, 16:16
Location: Drenthe, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by ott »

Helgiteut wrote: 25 Feb 2023, 01:38 It would also seem that Herman/Arminius of the Chatti, was only a title.
Yes, I agree.
User avatar
Nordic
Posts: 122
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 11:08

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by Nordic »

Excellent notes on the Ermanaric etymology and it being a title instead of a given name! Would the name then mean 'warrior-men-king' or 'army-men-king'?

As for Goths, I make here the case that the original, pre-Jordanes Gothic chronology may have used the same chronology as OL narrative. While it assumes Jordanes is mistaken in making the Gothic chronology too short, on the other hand the presumed chronology matches well with Egyptian, Norse and OL ones.
User avatar
ott
Posts: 180
Joined: 08 Dec 2022, 16:16
Location: Drenthe, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Atharik and Alrik = Athanaric and Alaric I?

Post by ott »

Nordic wrote: 09 Mar 2023, 11:27 Would [Ermanaric] then mean 'warrior-men-king' or 'army-men-king'?
RIK in Oera Linda never means king (like Latin 'rex'), but either 'rich' or 'realm'/'kingdom'/'empire' (like Dutch/German 'rijk'/'Reich' which words can also mean both 'rich' and 'kingdom', but not 'king'). 'Rex' can be explained as RIK.HIS => RIK.S ('of the realm')

So I think the name HÉR.MANNA.RIK means 'being rich in (i.e. having at its disposal many) warriors/army leaders'.
Post Reply