What is the relationship between the Fryans and the Aryan peoples?

[Veritas Virtusque]

The OLB speaks only of the Fryan, Findan, and Lydian peoples - evidently, white people, Northern Asian people, and Sub-Saharan African people. If I understand correctly the Fryans would have lived in Europe since at least 2,000-3,000 B.C. That would likely peg them as being of I-M170 haplogroup. What I don't understand is their relationship with the R1 haplogroup Aryan folk who migrated from Northern Asia to the Pontic Steppe around that same time and later dominated Europe. It seems like they're being equated, but the cultures, religions, symbols, and so on are so much different.

For instance, the Aryan folk worshipped a pantheon of natural forces as gods with the sky as the chief among them. The Fryans were strict monotheists who venerated their first ancestor almost as a saint but reserved worship for Wralda alone. The Aryan creation story involved two brothers, or possibly one or two men and a bull, and the first sacrifice. The Fryan creation story involved Wralda creating the Earth and the Earth creating three women. The Aryans were nomadic cattle herders who rode horses and spoke of the sea as a sort of plain. The Fryans were consummate mariners who lived on the coasts and rivers and sailed the oceans. The chief Aryan symbols were the swastika, the solar cross, and representations of horses and bulls. The chief Fryan symbol is the Yule wheel, which admittedly does resemble a variant of the solar cross with additional spokes. The Aryan language was ancestral to all of the languages of Europe except for Basque, Finno-Ugric dialects, and now-extinct languages like Nuragic and Minoan. The Fryan language was evidently a form of ancient Frisian.

I suppose the Fryans could have been a highly divergent early Germanic culture, or maybe a pre-Aryan culture that was highly influenced by early Germanic peoples. What are the forum's thoughts on this? How can we square what the OLB tells us with what archaeology, genetics, and historical records outside of the OLB say?

[ott]

The Aryan language was ancestral to all of the languages of Europe except for Basque, Finno-Ugric dialects, and now-extinct languages like Nuragic and Minoan. The Fryan language was evidently a form of ancient Frisian.

As far as I know "the" Aryan language does not exist, but is a reconstruction.
The language of OL — if authentic — is ancestral most clearly of Frisian, Dutch, German, English and the Scandianvian languages (incl. their varieties and dialects). Also some Latin (and thus French, Italian, Spanish), Old Greek and Sanskrit words and names can be explained by it (often better than by academic etymology);
— if created only for the manuscript, it is a very well made reconstruction (with some amazing lucky guesses) of the common ancestor of this language family.

[Coco]

The term Aryan is a vague word employed by some individuals as a sophisticated synonym for white. It is probable that it is a corruption of the Sanskrit term ā́rya (आर्य). Given the likely Indo-Aryan etymology of the name saṃ-skṛtá (संस्कृत), it is plausible to hypothesize that the borrowing of FRYA may have occurred, though the precise circumstances remain uncertain. This could have been due to contact with the Geartmen, leading to a mishearing or mispronunciation of the name over time.

The credibility of theories concerning the Proto-Indo-European (or Proto-Aryan), Proto-Germanic, and analogous proto-constructs is called into question when one considers the presupposition underlying these theories that the Oera Linda Book is a forgery. This assumption, in turn, is predicated on the idea that our ancestors lacked written language and, therefore, transmitted their knowledge and traditions exclusively through oral means.

The notion that the Fryas language constitutes the substratum of Germanic languages contradicts the prevailing academic orthodoxy that adheres to the framework of Proto-Indo-European.The Fryas language challenges this established paradigm, thereby necessitating a re-evaluation or rejection of Aryan myths, such as the sky father, two men, bull, sacrifice, and other elements that are part of that same framework.

It is crucial to understand the incentives driving this research. Academics, particularly those in the Netherlands, face incentives that motivate the pre-emptive dismissal or ridicule of the OLB. This dynamic creates a challenging environment for the objective presentation of research findings, as the pursuit of funding or career advancement can influence the selection of research topics and the exclusion of certain information.

Concerning the Persians, the report authored by Liudgeart (link) indicates that they were originally indigenous peoples who migrated westward. The report's phrasing suggests that the Geartmen arrived initially, and that this group of indigenous peoples subsequently fled, subsequently acquiring the appellation Iranians from the priests. Consequently, they adopted the Geartmen's religious practice of abstaining from idolatry and preserving the sacred light of Festa.

It is noteworthy that Liudgeart's report makes no mention of Zoroaster, yet it is plausible that Zoroastrianism played a pivotal role in the preservation of this religious practice, given the historical intersection between Zoroastrianism and Wraldaism/Fryaism by the time Liudgeart's report was penned. Alternatively, we may have to resort to speculative hypotheses, invoking the theories of Gunnar Heinsohn, to posit the possibility of a subsequent advent of Zoroaster.

[Er Aldaric]

The Aryan migration theory is a reconstruction. The story of two brothers sacrificing a bull was never written down or believed, instead that is what researchers assumed to be the primeval story of our ancestors based on comparative mythology and reducing it to its base archetypes. The Aryan language itself was never spoken, it was created via reverse engineering Indo-European languages. And as stated earlier the term Aryan itself comes from Fryan. These were my first questions when first discovering the Oera Linda as I was very interested in the Indo-Europeans, and I dismissed the OL on the grounds that it didn't fit into the narrative. I actually made a post with similar questions a while back: viewtopic.php?t=53

The Indo-European model explains the variation in European phenotypes by the different mixtures of three main archaic groups (Yamnaya, WHG, EEF). Europeans with darker features have more Neolithic farmer DNA, Blue eyes came exclusively from Western Hunter-Gatherers, etc. Using this modern framework Fryas folk would either have to be the Yamnaya themselves, or a modern European population resulting from the mixture of these three groups. Neither of those options fits the picture painted by the OL, which should be treated as the first and foremost primary source of our history. The OL's origins of Frya's folk start in Aldland followed by a migration into Europe (This lines up with Cro-Magnon / EEMH specimens and artifacts). Phenotypical differences between Europeans can be explained by admixture mainly from western and central Asians. Modern 'scientists' today assert that light skin pigmentation arose in Europe within only the last few thousand years.



Depiction of a Western Hunter Gatherer, Neolithic Farmer, and Indo-European. White people were supposedly created out of their mixture.

Currently, research on European pre-history is muddled with anti-European bias. Every article on any new finding makes a point to try and undermine the idea that white people are indigenous to Europe. it's going to take a cultural shift to make real change.

[ott]

The OL's origins of Frya's folk start in Aldland followed by a migration into Europe

This is not what is said in OL, ch. 3c. Laws for the Army and War:

[021/15] In early times, Finda’s folk lived mostly together in their mother’s native land — called ‘Aldland’, which now lies under the sea. They were thus far away, so that we had no wars. But when they became displaced and moved in to rob us, it naturally led to defence, armies, kings, and wars.

[Er Aldaric]

This is not what is said in OL, ch. 3c. Laws for the Army and War:

I apologize, I was under the impression Fleeland was also referred to as Aldland, meaning the old land before the cataclysm. Do you have any idea what landmass Aldland refers to? And if Doggerland is relevant to the sinking of Fleeland in any way?

[Wil Helm]

Linguisticly I'm still stuck if
Aryan could be a mis(or alternative)spelling of Fryan or
Aryan is related to Yren (OLB, Iranians now) or
no connection between the 3 names

Because if we follow OLB, Yren are linguisitcly not related to Fryan.
"Bewesten Pangab zijn de Yren (Iraniers) of wrangen (Drangianen), de Gedrosten (Gedrosiers) of weggeloopenen, en de Urgetten of vergetenen."

At the same time Arjan is typically germanic. I would think of "heer Jan".
Ariën is also a germanic toponyme (Aire-sur-le-Lys).
Though etymological references mostly point to Adrianus.
But then again, Adrianus could be a Roman name for D'heer Jan.

And what with the Oannes of Sumer (who is said to have given the Ur civilisation all their knowledge, half fish, half man, at night retreating to the sea)?
Could that Oan (Ion) be a general name of the Ionians on the new ships Alexander ordered for the retour and halted at the mouth of the Euphrate?
If Friso was captain of that fleet, it doesn't take too much imagination to see him going on wall during the day, while returning to his fleet because they were just stationary there to leave for the Red Sea.
And Sumer buildings came from Friso's visit with all his craftsmen.

The Yren were allready there, West of Frisian Punjab.
Persian is known to be in use in later time. So this can be connected with Friso's passage.
Here I am quite sure that this is really connected with "Frysian". B-P-V-F alternation in speech.

What intrigues me is that the Geertman (as offspring of Minerva in Athens) are said to have made such a big trip to the Indus, while the 2nd Frisian group of Jon (who are the most adventurous and young) is not spoken off.
They also on their Ionian Islands must have felt the incursion of their islands ... i think ...
So could have followed also many Ionians Geert to the Indus, where Alexander met them and took them to the Euphrate?

[Wil Helm]

Arjuna as a skilled chariot driver and user of the bow, makes one think of a Scythian.
Scythians are called like that in Roman/Greek texts for people who seem to be also 'Iranians' (Yren).

So the Yren could have come from Turkish Phrygia as the Scyths and/or Aryans.
Maybe unrelated with the Geertman arrival, but a landwise migration.
But that is why the Yren are looked to as good people, practicing no idoltry.
Ressembling their own values.

I can't understand what OLB says about the Yren's meaning.
"Bewesten Pangab zijn de Yren (Iraniers) of wrangen (Drangianen), de Gedrosten (Gedrosiers) of weggeloopenen, en de Urgetten of vergetenen."

Wrangen? Can anybody help.
Does it mean "gewrongen"? Twisted or, in between?
Or does it mean "uver"angen, those who live on the other side?

[Helgiteut]

I can't understand what OLB says about the Yren's meaning.
"Bewesten Pangab zijn de Yren (Iraniers) of wrangen (Drangianen), de Gedrosten (Gedrosiers) of weggeloopenen, en de Urgetten of vergetenen."

Wrangen? Can anybody help.
Does it mean "gewrongen"? Twisted or, in between?
Or does it mean "uver"angen, those who live on the other side?

Here's Jan Ott's english translation: "To the west of Panj-ab (Indus), the ‘Ira’ or wrathful live,..."
So "WRANGA." means angry/ira-ttated/wrathful

[half life over]

During the Roman holy empire they had a revision of the pronunciation of their alphabet. This happen When Rome had the most control and influence throughout the world. The connection between Aryan and Fryan/Phrygian is the changing of the Ph/F sound to an A sound.

When the British went over to india they tried to set up a connection between the british and indians. So they created a myth about the indians being Aryan. By this time Fryan/Phrygian was no longer pronounced with a PH/F sound but an A sound. So when the manuscripts were translated into english they translated it to Aryan instead of Fryan. This is the connection.

It all comes from the roman catholic reign and their tinkering with our languages. I hope this helps.