Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas

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teijahn
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Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas

Post by teijahn »

Has anyone here researched the following historical references and formed a clear view as to their likely validity and usefulness?. If so I would welcome your views, which may well shortcut my pending research, and possibly eliminate dead ends.

1. the Zeno 16th century map, subsequently copied into several later early maps. I have gotten as far as noticing that it is dismissed as fraud/hoax, which seems to be the starting point for any proposal that doesn't fit within the mainstream view on any and every topic. I am curious as to it naming a Frisland 5 centuries ago.

2. Bock Saga. The early pages, as far as I've gotten seem quite bizarre to me, however I am aware that it is regarded as a valuable resource by more than a few.

3. The Arctic Home in the Vedas by B G Tilak. (Comprehensive study of the Vedas etc. getting to his last chapter summary) I've just acquired this, and it'll be at least a sixpack of aspirin wading through it given the manner its written in, so hopefully someone else is ahead of me on this. Maybe this syncs with the Hyperborean myth.
(Extracts for reference) "The original tradition of 10,000 years since the last deluge fully in accord with Vedic chronology — And also with the American estimate of 8,000 B.C. for the beginning of the Post-Glacial period — "All prove the existence of a Polar Aryan home before 8,000 B.C. — The theory of the Polar origin of the whole human race not inconsistent with the theory of the Arctic Aryan home" "Proofs of the theory of the Arctic home summed up — They clearly indicate a Polar home, but the exact spot in the Arctic regions, that is, north of Europe or Asia, still undeterminable "

Cheers, and thanks in advance.
Rob
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ott
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Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas

Post by ott »

Some notes:
1. If the island indeed existed it will have disappeard long before the 16th century when the maps we know were made. The 16th century map makers may have copied the island from older sources. On some maps, toponyms are included which was of most interest to me. But besides the name of the island which is obviously similar to Friesland and Fryasland, I could not make sense of the toponyms through the Fryas language. So Fryas Folk will not have invented these names.
2. Parts of the Bock Saga I find plausible (for example the Temple of Lemminkäinen that has partly been excavated), others semi-plausible and some not at all, for example that Atlantis would have meant "All-the-land-ice", which may at best have been a wordplay.
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Pax
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Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas

Post by Pax »

I keep mentioning this book, but Alewyn Raubenheimer's Chronicles From Pre-Celtic Europe (3rd Edition) has an appendix on the island of Frisland.

Summary: The Zeno map was the most accurate map of its time, so the inclusion of a large fictional island is unlikely. Instead, the sources used for Frisland were old, which is why it was deleted in newer maps. Combining that with descriptions in the Oera Linda book and analysis of the underwater topography in the North Atlantic, Raubenheimer suggests that the Frya Aldland was the island of Frisland, whence refugees escaped to their colonies in Europe when the island sunk into the ocean in 2193 BC. Frya might have been an actual woman that survived, landing in Fleeland (maybe related to modern Vlieland?), creating the inspiration for her myth (see ch. 2e). The mountainous Faeroe Islands are what remain of Frisland. Consider the name too: Faeroe ≈ Phaeacia (Homeric name for Fryasland) ≈ Fryasland. In this theory, references to a likewise sunken Finda Aldland in the far east (see ch. 3c) would be an assumption on the part of the Fryas.

However, as Jan has suggested in other thread, Aldland could simply mean the old world prior to 2193 BC. And indeed, most of the names on the Frisland map look nonsensical. Either they were invented or went through a very thick Latin or Italian filter. Possible examples:
  • Sudeno Colfo = Southern Gulf, named by Zeno?
  • Sorand = SÉ.RAND? = Sea Rand/Edge, because it is a peninsula or the “edge” of the island?
  • Godmeo = GOD.MVDA? = Godmouth, named after a river delta?
  • Rodea = RÁD.É? = Red Water/Sea, because it is to the east and the sunrise creates a red glow on the ocean?
  • P. Orlanda = Pedum/Pedales Orlanda? = FÉT.É.LANDA? = Foot Islands, because they are in the south, or because they look like foot trails?
  • etc.
The Bock Saga has been extensively discussed on this forum, especially by PýrKlépsas and Nordic. I suggest you use the search feature; you will easily find many threads where it has been mentioned. Noteworthy thread: Forum introduction by PýrKlépsas
Vigtig viden eller ligegyldig info?
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Nordic
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Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas

Post by Nordic »

1. No, but see below. 2. Yes and yes, see below. 3. No, but again see below.

1. Not a Zeno expert, but upon simple searching by the map name found a website that seems to give a credible explanation of how the names on the map came to be, see the etymologies given here. As per that site, "Frisland" somewhere between Iceland and Scotland would be a duplicate error of Iceland, same way "Estland" is not Estonia or Estland, but corruption of Shetland. Sounds reasonable to me and does not detract from the OL narrative in any way (what Jan wrote above). North America as "Estotiland" could perhaps reflect the Norse naming pattern of North America: Vinland-Finland/Winetland, Markland-Denmark/Finnmark, Helluland-Hel/Helsingland etc, perhaps actually standing here for Estonia or 'East-land'. See here for more information and a map.

There is no general consesus which all European peoples or Eurasian peoples, other than Vikings, knew of or visited North America before Columbus. Like, the Romans claimed to have surveyed the whole planet by 44 BC (here, here, here and here; pineapple mosaics here and here). Bock saga claims leading medieval Finns always knew of the existence of the Americas under name Intia (not to be confused with India in Asia), using language that is very similar to early BC era Buddhist depictions of American Indian cultures in story called Āṭānāṭiya Sutta. See here with "Virupakha" and "Inda" standing for Viracocha and his son Inti (Bock saga Odenmaa is there under the country name Uttarakuru, the Bock saga narrative elements embedded into the Sanskrit language city names). Thus, in comparison the idea that some Italians went to Americas in late 1300s sounds rather modest and I see no reason why it couldn't be literally true.

2. I'm assuming you're referring to the book version sold at online bookshops. Be sure to check out also the video documentaries here (put the subtitles on from the text icon), here and here. All folklores have academic reference codes, for Bock family saga it's "SLS 1539 a" and "SLS 1539 b" (link). Overwhelmingly the most important single source to ever emerge out of Nordic peoples, not as historically or geographically detailed as OL, but wins big time over in describing the underlying philosophy and the king systems. Heavy on wordplays and etymology, so some basic knowledge of Swedish and Finnish is rather useful. Shares many similar elements with OL e.g. two-tiered Finnish system, 7 islands and Valhalla (Walhallagara in OL) and Frey as important character as being the first human male (Wralda the creator god in OL, see comparison here). Core narrative elements can be positively dated to BC era via early Buddhist literature on Nordic holy lands (see part 6 here). Racial creation tale actually tells where and how whites came to be (ice age Baltic Sea region), in comparison OL story on how races came to be is very simplistic theological tale. Some content is mythical and thus vague and allegorical in nature, others like the medieval material is very specific, even down to calendar day number when some raid, attack or royal situation took place. Most sexual traditions presented were known to medieval Nordic peoples, early AD era Christians (Borborite faction Jesus Christ) and likes of ancient Chinese upper class, who wrote treatises on very similar things.

3. Have not read the book, but the medieval era Hindus did claim that their locally noteworthy Kuru family lines in India are southern offshoots of arctic Uttarakuru peoples. This nearby combination of Uttarakuru-Amazon Land-Tavatimsa has a source model in northern Europe, being Finland (called Amazon Land or Terra Feminarum in medieval Christian and Islamic accounts*), with the story of holy land of Odenmaa (Odainsakr in Old Norse and Undensakre in Latin) and a notable region of Tavastia in it. Thus the idea that ancient culture of India comes from northern Eurasian regions is something already present in medieval and older Hinduism and not something invented by modern era authors like Tilak. This obviously may connect to the OL and Bock saga ideas of ancient Europeans having once lived in India.

* This is believed to be confusion of Kainuu region > Old Norse corresponding geographical term Kvenland > misunderstood by foreign Christians, Muslims as similar sounding Kvinnaland 'Woman-land'; or alternatively based on island Naissaar 'Woman-island' on nearby Estonian coastline (Estonians are a related Finnic people and share the same foundation mythology).
Last edited by Nordic on 27 Mar 2024, 13:11, edited 1 time in total.
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teijahn
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Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas

Post by teijahn »

Pax wrote: 28 Feb 2024, 18:04 I keep mentioning this book, but Alewyn Raubenheimer's Chronicles From Pre-Celtic Europe (3rd Edition) has an appendix on the island of Frisland.
Thank you for your suggestions and links.

I received my copy of the late Alewyn Raubenheimer's book some weeks back and have been picking away at it in between other research. I had read quite a bit of his work through a couple of forums he had posted with some years back, and was impressed with his views and reasoning, as I am with the book, which I regard as an outstanding effort. Following your post, I zeroed in on the Appendix you mentioned.

His case for the Faroe Islands is very well researched and put, I'm open on it at present, but his views are well presented and hard to dismiss.
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teijahn
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Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas

Post by teijahn »

Nordic wrote: 05 Mar 2024, 02:58 1. No, but see below. 2. Yes and yes, see below. 3. No, but again see below.
Thanks for your response and links given.

I explored the Bock subject further, certainly interesting, though it doesn't seem to gel with me, or at least parts of it don't. However, I would be curious as to whether and how it might relate to other material I have come across, as in Felice Vinci's "Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tale", where he proposes that the Mycenaean's originated from Scandinavia and Baltic regions.

He links Odysseus with the Faroe Islands and Scheria & the Phaeceans with Scandinavia, and in places seems to corroborate Alewyn Raubenheimer's work and perhaps in parts the OLB. Highly interesting, and he builds quite a case, yet if genetic studies have advanced enough to be reliable haplogroup typing doesn't support the theory, at least not so far as I have found.

Book Reviews
https://www.ancient-origins.net/book-re ... es-0012836
http://www.paabo.ca/reviews/BalticHomericVinci.html
https://nome.unak.is/wordpress/05-1/rev ... ions-2006/
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