The Nordwestblock hypothesis.

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Helgiteut
Posts: 80
Joined: 31 Dec 2022, 13:48
Location: Melbourne, VIC

The Nordwestblock hypothesis.

Post by Helgiteut »

Hello Friends, I want to show an idea that may greatly strengthen our understanding of the Fryas language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock
The link above is to a wikipedia article on the Nordwestblock, which is a language which mainstream linguists suppose to have once existed in the region of Greater Frisia. The idea is that the languages in the Netherlands are too different from other "Indo-European" languages to have evolved directly from the imaginary "Proto-Indo-European" language. Rather, a language already existed that was neither "Celtic" nor "Germanic". And from this substrate, many words may have come into Dutch, German, English and Frisian. One thing this would also prove is that the "Belgi" after which Belgium is named, were never a "Celtic" nation. Rather the Belgi may have been something neither fully "Gallic" nor "Germanic".

Even though the hypothesis is based on the Indo-European theories, which seem to go against the OLB, the Nordwestblock may well be a good archeological and linguistic framework that one day could show how the Fryas are the natives of West-Central Europe. Most of the scholarship on this idea is in German, which I don't read that well, so I won't be reading the scientific papers myself right now. I hope some of you can look into this and tell me what you think.
Brea, bûter en griene tsiis is goed Ingelsk en goed Frysk
Wil Helm
Posts: 33
Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 18:18

Re: The Nordwestblock hypothesis.

Post by Wil Helm »

Very interesting Helgiteut!

Allready 2 thougths that pop up;

1) From what you mentionned:
"One thing this would also prove is that the "Belgi" after which Belgium is named, were never a "Celtic" nation. Rather the Belgi may have been something neither fully "Gallic" nor "Germanic"."

I can only think, as a Belgian, that still it is not solely a French, Dutch or German speaking country but 3-lingual by constitution and regions. With a language border Flemish(Dutch)-Walloon(French), smack in the middle.
Knowing that a big part of the Walloon speaking region was in earlier times Flemish spoken and the spoken Flemish extending into what is now Northern France.

Using "onverfranst, onverduitst" (translated unFrenchified, unGermanized) as a slogan for not given into rising French or German language, culture or influence.

2) From the picture of the Nordwestblock region on Wiki, this resembles for a very large part the "Leo Belgicus" concept of the 16th/17th century cartographers. See link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Belgicus
To think that the language concept even before this timeframe, used the term "Diets". As language from the people in these area's. Now a more archaic term, but better to describe the common origin than we use now for some of these evolved seperate languages as Dutch or Deutsch.

In short for now: seems that views on long time gone language influence/origins, passing through the middleages, till recent times are in this matter quite parallel. But due to nationalistic and chauvinistic feelings difficult to aknowledge.
Not even spoken about the French(Norman) and English, who have undergone simmilar influence from that region in their language. Even the Italians would be amazed, knowing to have undergone the same. Apulia fe. And the Baltic, and Russia, and ...


Edit, thought exercise:

For the Italians, should they be among us ;-) ... in concreto:
Wiki states on Apulia:
"...the Salento peninsula forms the "tacco" ("heel") of Italy's boot."

Let us all read that again:
"tacco" for heel.
"De hak" (or diminutive " 't hakje") still used in our language for that part in Italy.
Typically for a hak is that a big part is "weg ge-hakt". What the heck, now we see! :-)

For completion to our Romanized counterparts:
"Italy", maybe we call it like that because it just is and looks like that:
"Uit-haal-ije": the Adriatic see moved inwards that much, the see has taken-out (uithalen) that much of land it has become seperated from the rest.
Escapeyourcage
Posts: 11
Joined: 03 Jun 2023, 07:11

Re: The Nordwestblock hypothesis.

Post by Escapeyourcage »

In German, at least, “Hacke(n)” refers to the heel (English “hock(s))
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Kraftr
Posts: 118
Joined: 10 Apr 2023, 07:57

Re: The Nordwestblock hypothesis.

Post by Kraftr »

North west Germany (Frisia)was home to an undisturbed lineage of NHG (neolithic hunter gatherer).
I timestamped it in the url of this video
https://youtu.be/QS3mIgCGWaA?t=1101
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