examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

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Nordic
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Nordic »

Ott or anyone, please make a permanent blog post or wiki page on all these examples. Minerva the Nehalennia would fit in there, too.
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ott
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by ott »

A book could be filled with examples of names, words, expressions, aspects of language and ways of thinking that can better be explained through the Fryas language. Some good ones are on the Saved from the Flood (Fryskednis) blog.

For now I try to focus on making the new Dutch translation. When other good examples come to mind, I will post them here.
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by ott »

MEN-but.jpg
MEN-but.jpg (509.45 KiB) Viewed 505 times
In the Oera Linda, MEN is used almost 300 times for but, though, rather, however etc.
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Pax
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Pax »

Some additonal notes, with my own conjecture:
  • Fryas MEN → Danish/Norwegian/Swedish men, Icelandic en
  • Fryas MÁR → Dutch maar. MÁR means “more” but can also mean “but” in some cases where MÁR is used as a conjunction, e.g. OLB p. 164: NÉNE ÍRA MÁR GODA “not ireful, rather (more) good.”
  • Fryas BÛTA → English but
  • Fryas THACH/THA → Danish/Norwegian dog, Swedish dock, Icelandic þó, Dutch toch, German doch, English though
German aber can be traced to Old Saxon aver/afer, which may be a variant of eft “again, back” which could also mean “on the other hand”. eft would be a contraction of Fryas EFTER/ÀFTER. aber could also come from unattested Fryas *NEWÉRE, later Old Frisian newēre “but rather” (lit. like German nicht wäre), hypothetically later shortened to *ewēr and then through sound changes altered to aver/afer and finally aber. Alternatively, aber is an Old High German loanword and may be related to Italian però and Spanish pero, which come from Latin per hōc “for this [reason]”.

Italian ma and French mais are traditionally traced to Latin magis “more”, which was also used to mean ”but” in the same way as Fryas MÁR. magis and magister were probably related to each other. To explain this, it helps to look at Old German: in Old Saxon, mēste/mēster can mean “master/teacher”, “most” and “more”. The same happens in Old High German with meist/meistar. Thus there is a lot of overlap between the concepts of master and most; perhaps “master” comes from the meaning of “the one with the most [knowledge, authority, power etc.]”. Of course, mēster/meistar come from Fryas MÀSTER, and mēste/meist from Fryas MÁSTE/MÉST.

In Latin, the same development probably occurred. Latin dictionaries traditionally trace magister “master, teacher” to simply being magis “more” with -ter tacked at the end, similarly to minister and sinister. However, since magister replaced an earlier form magester, it is also possible that magester replaced an even earlier unattested *maester or *mēster, which would ultimately come from Fryas. Something interesting about magis and magister is that they sound like Magi. We already know that the Magyars established themselves as the priest class in the places they went and that the priests in Rome were prestigious and powerful. So perhaps the Magi-sters became associated with teaching and leadership.
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Kraftr »

cool! Maybe Magi(sjaman) got the name as a recognition of being more learned, and leading the rituals. We still say in Dutch and English 'do you think you are more than me', basically 'are you my master/teacher'. And in Dutch ones' superior is your 'meerdere'. It was suprising when an Eastern European called me 'master', then I realised it just meant 'artist' -still good for the ego.


from etymonline.com
*meg-

Proto-Indo-European root meaning "great."

It forms all or part of: acromegaly; Almagest; Charlemagne; maestro; magisterial; magistral; magistrate; Magna Carta; magnate; magnitude; magnum; magnanimity; magnanimous; magni-; Magnificat; magnificence; magnificent; magnify; magniloquence; magniloquent; Magnus; maharajah; maharishi; mahatma; Mahayana; Maia; majesty; major; major-domo; majority; majuscule; master; maxim; maximum; may (v.2) "to take part in May Day festivities;" May; mayor; mega-; megalo-; mickle; Mister; mistral; mistress; much; omega.

It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Armenian mets "great;" Sanskrit mahat- "great, mazah- "greatness;" Avestan mazant- "great;" Hittite mekkish "great, large;" Greek megas "great, large;" Latin magnus "great, large, much, abundant," major "greater," maximus "greatest;" Middle Irish mag, maignech "great, large;" Middle Welsh meith "long, great."


maybe related; german manche(english; some), ger. eine Menge(eng.; a lot)
So (in improvised writing); een meang- mer- meyest

*edit;
probably related to Dutch menige, menigte(several, crowd)
Last edited by Kraftr on 22 Jun 2024, 18:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Pax
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Pax »

Thanks for sharing that anecdote, boss.

I deliberately ignored “Proto-Indo-European” because it never existed. But the PIE etymologies are sometimes useful for finding cognates. The same holds true for “Proto-Germanic”.

My conjecture: English many comes from Fryas MENI. Supposedly German Menge, manche and Danish mange come from the same root, which had the diminutive -KE (like German -chen) added at some point, meaning there was an unattested *MENIKE, literally “a little many”. In Old German, the form menigi would come from this. In Danish, it is still common to say lidt mange. Later menigi became Menge, manche and mange. Sounds in the velum (or “ceiling”) of the mouth, i.e. the K, G, CH sounds, mix easily.

In Latin, the -n- was dropped, then became magis through some sound changes, i.e. *MENIKE → *meike → magis. This is similar to the way -n- was dropped in Fryas MAN.S, creating Latin words like mās, masculīnum. Either that or magis and magister come from MÁST and MÀSTER like suggested previously. There is a lot of room for qualified guesses, but it gets a lot closer to the truth than PIE ever did.

The note about diminutives could possibly also explain German Mensch, Danish Menneske. For example, in Fryas, one sees the spellings MÀNNISKA and MINNISKA. Since MINNA means “love”, perhaps MINNISKA is really a diminutive of MINNA, meaning “little love”. So the three primordial mothers gave birth to their children and referred to them as their little loves, or mankind was born out of love. That may be stretching it, but I like the thought of it, at least.
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Kraftr
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Re: examples of Fryas words being more pure than Latin or Greek

Post by Kraftr »

I believe this is a superlative series like bad -worse- worst
men would be a selection, some, several, a handfull. Men as understood meaning '' except' is in the same vein as it describes a selection from a greater group. Synonims for 'but'(and but itself) are in the same vein; only, except, save, nonetheless, apart from, outside off etc. The -g- of magis would appear on its superlatives from a 'slurred' -y- sound; mer would be said more like meyer going south to become maior(lat) 'Most(eng meist(ger) would then be the root to magist. It tracks with the meaning.
I agree about PIE and it's use. I now see Gothic as closest to this assumed root/connection, it relates to more eastern (and very early moved out east) Afanasievo language, Tocharian, and has cases and wordcombinations that have logic and have lead to new words. I even see how sometimes just one letter in Gothic can carry meaning like a word, reminding me of Bock's theory on sounds.(though this happens in other languages too)

'In Dutch 'men' is also translatable to a nondiscript 'they'or ''people'.
Your connection of Man/Mensch and min got me thinking. Maybe man is the singular form. Min is in Dutch used as in minus(lat), it's superlatives 'minder' and 'minst'(less, least, note; the opposite of more and most) are I believe not from latin, and in Fryan and low dutch(pronounced as english 'mean') also used as in Minerva, meaning ''my/mine' it would be the personal selection and connects love and lovemaking as a subtraction, because a lover, (or property) is what you picked/withheld/subtracted from the many, or the world, enjoying or practising that would me 'minnen'.
Maybe even mining is related?
And to me the -i- sounds inward, toward me(ik), 'men' is separate, 'min' is involved. But this is just decribing how it feels to me. And Gothic seems to me to have a logic in this kind of way.
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