It is an invitation, an exercise to show how one would/could translate a complex text from a very different era into understandable English, without use of archaic and/or dialectal terms, thus not unrelated.Coco Bandicoot wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 19:03This is unrelated to the topic of creating a separate version with simpler vocabulary.
Why archaic and dialectal English is bad in an international translation
Re: Why archaic and dialectal English is bad in an international translation
Re: Why archaic and dialectal English is bad in an international translation
According to this Primal History, Wralda did not create the good and evil things. Earth (herself having been wrought by Time) brought them forth.Coco Bandicoot wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 19:03I suppose Wralda is a little complicated, because although he creates both good and evil things, he is ultimately good, which would suggest that the evil things are there for a reason?
Re: Why archaic and dialectal English is bad in an international translation
Sandbach translated Ottema's dromen van Wr.alda into visions of Wr-alda.Coco Bandicoot wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 19:03Wralda cannot be seen, so perhaps he had to give the daughters joyful visions while his od created life inside them. So, this would make most sense to me: “As soon as they had matured, they experienced pleasure and delight in their dreams.” (or: in their visions)
(...)
A combined alternative translation of the past two lines would be: “(...) they had visions of pleasure and delight (...)”
Aside: Vision is from Latin videre (to see) which may have derived from Fryas WIT (white, wit, wet; once equated* to SÉ: sea) and/or WÉTA (to know). [*WITKÉNING. THÀT IS SÉKÉNING]
DRÁMA has well fitting cognates:
dreams - English
dromen -Dutch
drome - Afrikaans
Träume - German
dreamen - Frisian
drømme - Danish
drömmar - Swedish
drømmer - Norse
drauma - Icelandic
To translate it as visions would be unforgivable, i.m.o.
Re: Why archaic and dialectal English is bad in an international translation
Yes, there will be overlap between threads.
This translating challenge was intended to demonstrate [1] how important it is to [1a] read carefully, [1b] study the whole codex (in its original language) in order to best know how the authors thought, [2] that this sort of translating is not as easy as it may seem when you have not tried, [3] that it remains a matter of personal taste.
This translating challenge was intended to demonstrate [1] how important it is to [1a] read carefully, [1b] study the whole codex (in its original language) in order to best know how the authors thought, [2] that this sort of translating is not as easy as it may seem when you have not tried, [3] that it remains a matter of personal taste.
Re: Why archaic and dialectal English is bad in an international translation
God (supreme being) will have derived from a more mundane adjective, meaning good (or whole). Otherwise it would be very strange to also describe animals as being GOD.Coco Bandicoot wrote: ↑16 Jun 2023, 19:03To me, it makes most sense to say “Wralda, who alone is God and eternal.”
Re: Why archaic and dialectal English is bad in an international translation
I asked my oldest two children (almost 7 and almost 9) if they knew what a 'visioen' is. Even the oldest, who reads too much for his age and has a great vocabulary, had no idea. I could explain the word to them as 'daydream'. Even our 5 years old knew what dreams are and that they can be about a desire. When I asked her she answered: I dreamt of riding a horse.
When I said 'unforgivable', that was hyperbolical, but I really don't see why 'vision' would be preferable to 'dreams' here, as the context makes clear that they were not ordinary. I know I used the term 'vision' in a presentation once, and I have used it before in context of 'vision quest'. Anyway, de gustibus non disputandum est.