Why archaic and dialectal English is bad in an international translation

[Coco]

In regard to the English translation of the Oera Linda Book, it is important to note that the employment of archaic idioms and unconventional sentence structures is not conducive to effective communication. The target demographic of the translation encompasses a global audience, not solely individuals proficient in the target language. Consequently, the utilization of simplistic language does not constitute a diminution of linguistic complexity; rather, it is an approach designed to enhance the comprehension of the text by an international readership.

[ott]

Thank you for the more detailed explanation, which helps me understand your position better. I look forward to read what others think about this, both native English speakers and Scandinavians, Germans, Dutch, etc.

[Escapeyourcage]

Thanks for the response. And, most importantly, thanks for sharing it via the forum!
As a general reply, I think that the audience is sophisticated enough to use the many resources at their disposal to understand the text as translated. Mirroring the style of a source text is an important aspect of translation, and anything else would detract from the work. Granted, an easy language version might be useful, for instance, when the target audience is children.
As for "brood", "tale of woe" etc.: Those are perfectly useful and common idioms. After all, it is a translation into English, no matter who the audience may be!
Using the argument presented, one could protest that the Standskrift font is unusable because people will not be able to read it without effort - a bogus argument.
I'm the first to admit that there is still editorial work to be done (the first time around, we were up against a tight deadline and had to discuss many things at length). But, I am also aware that my editorial skills are of the highest calibre, and I am proud to say that there are sections of the original Fryas that I was the first to correctly translate. The assertion that using proper English vocabulary and syntax makes for an "awkward" result, I reject.

Therefore, I will continue into the next phase with the same aims (aesthetic and otherwise), trusting that the efforts will be appreciated by many, if not by all, who wish to immerse themselves in the language of Codex Oera Linda.

[Helgiteut]

Maybe it is better to have an English translation for native English speakers, and then as time goes by, for more languages to have their own translations also to a native level. In an age of the internet, finding the meaning of archaic English terms isn't that hard for most, even if it does break-up the flow of reading. But maybe you could suggest an edition that is based on simplified English, for non-native speakers.

[Wil Helm]

Imo, it is an enhancement to translate it with 'Tale' instead of 'Speech'.
We must not forget that a lot af interesting, and value for the ones who can appreciate it, of the OLB tale lies not only in the historical narrative but also in language (and hints to possible origin).

Maybe i would have translated into "Tell and answer" or "Talk and answer" (cfr our nowadays 'Question and answer' topics)
But "Tale and Answer" I see as even. Certainly better than Speech and Answer, which says even less in English.
It was not that much about proclaiming a speech. It was about telling a sad story, giving account of events, just talking about it by which it got known. A tale in it's original sense.

En plus:
If the translater didn't do this change, the readers would be missing these etymological links the OLB brings to ponder on.
So a very interesting part of what OLB has to offer.
If you look it this way, it is idd the opposite of belittlement but gives its full spectrum what is to discover.
And that will always be more difficult for English and certainly non-native readers.
So the remark about children's books i can give a place.

Why do the modern day English speakers don't use the word Tale for Language (lallen-gewijs)?
We use 'taal', so why don't they?
For sure they know the word, only to use for "telling a tale" when they talk, but not for the taal used? (language, tongue (tong), speech (spiek=spit when talking)). And the tongue is a lel! And so is a dick if you translate tael with speech

But at this side of the ocean we derived also, we didn't perserve the usage of the word Tale in 'verhaal'.
We left out the 't'! 'Vertel uw verhaal' we say to encourage someone to speak.

[Escapeyourcage]

My personal goal for this translation has been stated clearly: “to make the source language accessible so that it can be read directly”. The language used is proper English. The syntax and word choice are designed to form a linguistic bridge from English to Fryas, as well as being pleasurable to read. The fact that some readers will need a dictionary is acceptable to me.

[ott]

An easier to understand translation of Oera Linda would be welcome ineed. I would be most willing to help (as much as I can) create it and have it published. Also, even in the most current version there are still parts I wish improved.

Several promising projects related to OL are waiting to be finished, others to be started. Some wonderful volunteers are helping. Yet, I am approaching dangerous levels of exhaustion. Family obligations are taking up ever more of my time and energy.

Frustration about the earlier translations has been one of my personal motivators. May some of you feel inspired to contribute to further popularizing the texts and inspiring new research, in any way.

[Nordic]

What Coco suggests is ideal, but I nonetheless suggest the English language version to be in proper English. Old fashioned words are perfectly fine if the translator wants them to be still around in future (language survival) or if they have close relative in OL Frisian language (language relations teaching).

Our reserach has sometimes earlier went astray by having at first noticed seemingly similar language usage to OL from English language translations of Norse sagas, only to find later the Norse originals have nothing even remotely similar (the English translations by academics were apparently too poetic). Thus we often go for the literal or literal-ish translations, which often bears the additional benefit of showing how closely related the various Germanic languages really are.

[ott]

Let's take one short key text as an example (2b. Our Primal History, [006/12]) and see how we can optimise it in English, for I am not satisfied with any version thus far:

1. WR.ALDA THAM ALLÉNA GOD ÀND ÉVG IS.
GOD: God, good, whole, ...? Some lines later it says ALHWAT GOD ÀND DJAR IS, so if there are good creatures, does that contradict the first line? Or is only Wralda good and eternal?

2. T.ANFANG: Potential is an interpretation which I like. Dutch/German aanvang/Anfang means beginning, but so does BIJIN and the three wheels on page [045] suggest a difference.

3. MAN’GÉRTA: literally means (hu)man-desire (Dutch: man-begeerte introduced by Jensma is not a common compound word) and is used for girls, which is only clear from the context. I have found no cognates yet in other languages. Perhaps maagd/Magd (maiden, virgin) is derived from it. Why/how did this word disappear?

4. THÁ HJA BLÁT KÉMON: lit.: when/as they came bare/naked/bald (Du/Ge: bloot/bloß). Possibly: As they emerged/came into existence (Dutch: tevoorschijn kwamen).

5. RING AS HJA RIP WÉRON: lit.: as soon as they were ripe. I like the imagery of ripe fruit as still exists for sexual maturity in Du/Ge (geslachtsrijp/geschlechtsreif), but can we keep something with ripe in English, perhaps with a footnote? I don't like Sandbach's full grown. Perhaps the current When they matured is good enough.

6. KRÉION HJA FRÜCHDA ÀND NOCHTA ANDA DRÁMA
This is a tough one as the words FRÜCHDA ÀND NOCHTA are ambiguous and can both mean fruits and nuts (which will have been the original meanings) and something like pleasure and delight (Du/Ge: vreugde en genot/Freude und Genuss). I am not satisfied with our current translation with footnote.

7. WR.ALDA.S OD TRÀD TO RA BINNA.: keep od (with note) or translate/interpret the word? Although I think the verb BINNATRÉDA is a more original form of penetrate, the latter word may be too rude in this context. I do think WR.ALDA.S OD should remain the subject (as in Wralda’s 'od' entered into them), not object (as in They received Wralda’s ‘od’ into them).

[PýrKlépsas]

Fruits and nuts are possibly relating to beechnut/oaknut* - the relation to the nuts of the Linden tree is made very clear in the codex (LINDA.BÁMA, OL MS 168, 05). See: https://wiki.oeralinda.org/view/168

See also: WÁRANDE LINDA [OL MS 104 & 105]
https://wiki.oeralinda.org/view/104

* It has a phallic shape, an obvious one relating to fertility, as one can see how it is generally used:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn#/me ... 0EcudQ.svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutland#/ ... ouncil.svg
Found from many other places also, search and see for yourselves.
This would mean the Linden tree is a masculine tree - party the reason why it is used in this way.
In Bock saga Oak is Frei's tree - he was the first masculine human.

Now - I can't really say for sure what exact tree LINDA is

Fruits also have fertility associations, for example apple or pomegranate - both very familiar in judeo-christian religions, that's why God told Adam and Eve in the Genesis to ''be fruitful''. Paganwomen tied appletree-branches to their heads.