Radical chronology revision

[ott]

A recent line of thought that may lead to a radical (more so than I thought earlier) revision of our CE chronology.

2025, Feb. 9 — Note JO to someone writing:

The book claims to [have been] written between 2194 BCE and 803 CE

Codex Oera Linda's most recent text (ch. A), a letter dated as written in the year 1255 'in the Christian ("Kersten") reckoning', was written by an apparent copyist, named Hidde Oera Linda, who equates this year 1255 to the year 3448 from another timeline — "after Atland sank" — which is also used in some of the older texts.

However, it is followed by a letter from the year 803 (ch. B), seemingly of the same "Kersten" timeline, in which the Atland timeline is not referenced. This is peculiar, because this author — Liko Ovira-Linda — just expressed his concerns about loss of his ancestral heritage, of which the Atland timeline would have been a part. Chronologically preceding texts (e.g. ch. Z) no longer used this timeline either.

Therefore, the reliability of a comparison of the two timelines is questionable. Hidde may have projected a then assumed dating of a big flood on the older dating system, that had already been out of use for a long time. It's even possible and plausible that for many of the older texts, the Atland (or 'Aldland') reference was used in a more symbolic than factual way.

Many of these uncertainties may never be confirmed, but even if Hidde's equation would be correct (as well as our CE timeline), the oldest part of the book was compiled in the 6th century BCE. I prefer to say that this was an estimated 300 years before Alexander's time, whenever that may have been.

= = = earlier, mid December ‘24 and this month: = = =

2024, Dec. 16 — Reply by Asha Logos to someone writing:

I’m tired of people saying Islam is not a European religion but Christianity is.

So disgusted by such (...) ahistorical comments..

Christianity - regardless of one’s opinions of the doctrine - was nurtured and cultivated in the European soul.. for millennia (…)

(…) virtually every last man was Christian, to the extent that Christian became synonymous with ‘White’ (...)

Dec. 17 — Reply JO:
“For millennia” is ahistorical.

“Virtually every last man was Christian” — As with today’s dominant (quasi) religions, large part of the followers took advantage of it while another part was forced to submit and pay lip service.

I respect [Asha Logos] as video maker and author of the preface in the early editions of Codex Oera Linda.

And I distance myself of glorification of Europe’s christian past.

Oera Linda is diametrically opposed to the slave culture resulting of a thousand years of christian indoctrination.

three weeks later, 2025, Feb. 6:

Actually, this »christian indoctrination« only happened since the Renaissance, I have become convinced — when Old and New Testament were written, as well as most of our alleged sources from ‘classical antiquity’ (a literary genre for the elites of those days one could call it), promoted through church and universities, later also printed paper, and so on, up until our days with its modern substitute religions.

Notes:
(1) Old Testament was written after New Testament;
(2) Renaissance elites: banker families in Venice and Florence, and their cronies.

followed by short dialogue:

commenter: The dead sea scrolls seem to be clear proof that the old testament existed, at least in basis, well before the new testament. As to merchants compiling and weaponizing them, I have no good argument contrary.

JO: It may be ironic hearing this from an OL advocate, but the dead sea scrolls seem to be some of the many forgeries supporting the larger and older hoax. People specialized in this field will be able to better explain.

commenter: Not ironic, forgeries are common anywhere one might seek fame or to push an agenda. My understanding is that they seemed authentic and had supporting carbon dating, but I am not an expert in the field.

JO: Carbon dating seems to have been calibrated based on false premises, based on house-of-cards or lined-up-dominoes history.

commenter: It is clear from me that it is far from perfect. I certainly would not argue that it is.

three days later, Feb. 9:

This religion, which requires the priests to possess no skills other than lordly talk, outward piety, and foul customs, is expanding from East to West — and will also spread over our lands. Oera Linda, ch. T2

The cycle of ‘Great (religious) Resets’ can be reconstructed,

• from a Buda/Yes-us cult described in Oera Linda,

• through early Jesus-movement that will have existed in France (Paris based?),

• then the Popes in Rome (Venice/Florence funded),

• then Protestantism (Amsterdam/London funded),

• then French & Russian Revolution (communism),

• up until the modern complex of religious doctrines (a.o. Ho’stianity, scientism), in which various subsects are indeed allowed/promoted, as long as they help divide and conquer.

[ott]

... since the Renaissance, I have become convinced — when Old and New Testament were written, ...

... through early Jesus-movement that will have existed in France (Paris based?) ...

Some quick notes, mostly based on German video (full 27 min. version behind low and worth-it paywall).

All old remains on the so-called Temple Mount in Jerusalem* (incl. so-called Wailing Wall) were not of a Jewish temple, but of a Roman castrum (thus, not only the Antonia Fortress), destroyed in the ‘Medieval catastrophy’. Compare with similar structure in Syria. → Notre Dame (statues 28 Jewish/French kings on westside). Note statues of personifications Ecclesia and Synagoga.
(*Jerusalem — Hieru-salem: city of peace, can be any place.)

Holy Innocents' Cemetery (Paris) → children murdered by Herod → Henry I (1008–1060) of the Franks (3 sons, like Herod). Herod and Henry: title, not name.

Mont Martre (hill of martyrs), Sacre Coeur Basilica on hill→ Golgotha (gallows hill?).

Pharisees → Parisians.

Sea of Galilee (meters-high waves) was not Lake Tiberias, but Gallic Sea (now: English channel).

Arnon (Jos. 13:9-10/16, Num. 21:13*) was not what is now Wadi Mujib, but Arno (central Italy).
(*They set out from there and camped alongside the Arnon, which is in the wilderness extending into Amorite territory. The Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites.)

Amorites: people from love-/sex-cult — Dionysians (at least in and near Pompeji and Herculaneum (that were destroyed in 17th, not 1st century). Compare Amorosi near Naples. Compare Sodom and Gomorra (→Amorra) tale. No fitting active volcanoes in the Near East. Compare Exod. 20:18-21.

Jordan → Eridanus (Po River, North Italy).

13 City-states and principalities of Italy (1000 AD)→ 13 tribes Israel. E.g. Dan: Dandolo of Venice.

Arabian original names have no link to Biblical ones and no (solod) archaeological finds to support claims.

= = =
Also, it has become fully clear to me that the Dead Sea Scrolls are fake.
I still have to explore the Nag Hammadi writings.

[Kraftr]

A couple of years back I saw a pretty convincing video how Moskow is the real Jerusalem. There are also 13 founding US states, seven hills in Rome etc. And it's safe to say most of it is not coincidental.
So the one conclusion I come to is that there is a lot of repetition magic/Winks to the people in the know, if only to honor/prop up the mystification in the base story.
Jews(and Christians) have dedicated the title on every city that had their favour/was conquered. And this moved with their powerbase. Much like Nero, before the fall Louis XIV focused on revigorating cultural grandesse, and it was the vote of the clergy that fundamentally pulled the rug. In the founding of the Netherlands we were also called Israel.
Many Pagan holy sites were subplanted with Christian importance. Paris and it's island are a natural spot for a great defence. The Notre Dame could be a remnant of a place dedicated to the Virgin Mother. The Lilly(fleur de lis) is a symbol of The Virgin. The bee chosen by Napoleon was also used on Artemis. Paris(and Moscow) could have been a major place for pre-christians that needed an Abrahamic overhaul. Or follows from this hypothesis Judaism itself was a European elite's invention to conquer the Levantine crescent?

Asha Logos motivations I believe lie in a difference between religious politics in America vs Europe. Currently the right wing in America profits from having Christianity as a fundament of unity and this is quiet understandable because paganism is vague,'lawless' and specially in America dominated by wicca-like leftists who use it to claim homosexual-, transgender- and alternate black history and sometimes cloaked satanic agendas. Much like how in Ireland there is no getting away from the 90% socialist mindset and nationalists have to work from that reality.
Paganism is not scam-proof either.

Europe is more rooted and remembers the toll of Christianity and has for a large part abandoned it, making paganism and Matriarchy (Frydom) much more promising ways over here to come back from Nihilism, because most are done with Christianity, and Frya is exiting. But we'll have to make it viable if we want it to persuade people that it is the more clean, wise, workable and relatable religion. While America has the constitution to take the place of core values of the mothers, Europe really could use a liberty manifest. Maybe Rome could be saved by Frydom even, like Frysians have before.
I like that the matriarchy has the rational and civilisation-building component and is much less vague and 'wild' then other paganism. In fact, to me it creates order in both paganism and christianity; I've come to see the feminin secret throughout paganism, but also how Christianity loaned a lot from valuable pagan/european ideas and patterns, and is not neccisarily a Jewish psyop as Adam Green and others claim.
Torah/OT and archeology even shows Jews were one of the first matriarchies that were conquered, leaving modern Jews with a shortcircuit inducing reversepsychology play caught between sin, (perceived) persecution and exceptionalism. Constantly solidifying the misdirect to incorrect assignment of historical wrongs that 'need' to be corrected, and further estrangement from the world. In this sense OL is maybe even more important for their spiritual healing.

In it's esoteric truths/patterns though the NT is a European religion, while educating about the Jewish issues. Like the coat for Athena, came a new coat for old myth for Europe to feel familiar and replace with as little objection as possible. So a lot of it can be enjoyed if you can translate back.
I but I can see Jesus as a mix of the OL Jesos, (child of)Minerva, Hephaestos, Eros, Freyr, Apollo, child/husband(anointed King) of Frya for instance. And of course Mary is almost 1 to 1 the Holy Mother. Monastaries were much like the borgs, etc. In my study of Christian art I find little hints too. I hope someday I can make a solid post on that.
Christianity in many respects was a return to the old ways (eg Corey Mahler in his debate with Adam Green ascribed 'the old ways' to Ashkenaz' legacy from Noah -this could be the way for Christianity to speak maternal truth through biblical idiom; Shem/Ham/Japhet can be understood as a localised copy of Finda/Lyda/Frya).

So all that messyness could also be a rationale to choose (independent) Christianity, as a mystically/mythologically enjoyable victory of Hellenism(Europe). Because reason, justice, benevolens, freedom and other Fryan virtue can coexist and survive with Christianity, I think there is more value in the common ground then the interesting valid objections, and historical reality of OLM, but that will for the short term not be of societal/political impact.
So in short, let's stay friends with Christians, and show them the overlap, benefits and clarity of Frydom, and work to make it come alive.

[ott]

... a pretty convincing video how Moskow is the real Jerusalem.

There may have been more at different times. But are there Gallic/Gallilean sea, Jordan/Eridanus river etc. near Moskow? Have you seen the German video I linked to?

(My posts were somewhat chaotic, but the the topic is clear and will crystallize further. Please try to be to the point in your replies. I will still read the rest later, but perhaps much of it could move to a more fitting thread?)

[Nordic]

I recall an earlier discussion of the issue of Dead Sea scrolls having been repaired in modern times without an academic trace of that work, suggesting to some that they may be fraudulent altogether.

An argument for some Dead Sea scrolls authenticity is the fact, found out first by this author, that the name list in Sumerian King List, textually relevant to select Oera Linda book chapters, is not only the upstream of Old Testament Genesis name list, but also that of Dead Sea scrolls that constitute the The Book of Giants. Namely, the same Alulim-to-Elolim linguistic change gives us not only the Biblical names but also those present in the Book of Giants, which also correctly retained the Gilgamesh name from Sumerian King List and the giant attribute from the sons of Fornjót (in Finnish and Estonian: sons of Old Kaleva, or Kave Ukko). Depending how one looks at it, I either cracked the method the forgeries were made or the proof these are all ancient stories.

Since my own presentation on this all is also behind a paywall, on a site I do not myself run, here's a short summary of it. The bottom three are the ones that ended up in Dead Sea scrolls The Book of Giants work.

• Alulim ↔ Elohim*

• Macda ↔ Mahalalel

• Arwium ↔ Jered

• Etana taken to space ↔ Enoch taken to space

• Melem-Kic ↔ Lémek/Lamech (from Lemminkäinen > Lemminki > Lem-me-K(ic), Latin Lammechinus)

• En-me-nuna, followed by Barsal-nuna ↔ Noah

• Zamug ↔ Shem

• Tizqar ↔ Arpaksad (Tizqar > tizqer > reversed into reksid > Arpaksad)

• Iltasadum ↔ Selah

• Enmenbaragesi ↔ Eber (En(men)bara(gesi) > Eber; perhaps from Bálagarðssíða or 'southern Finland')

• Kuara ↔ Serug (Kuara > gures > reversed into Serug; from Fundinn Noregr Frosta or Kuura)

• Gilgamec ↔ Gilgameš

• Udul-kalama ↔ Ohyah (Udul-kalama > Odoh-keheme > Ohyah)

• La-ba'cum ↔ Ḥobabish (La-ba'cum > Hebecom > Ḥobabish)

* This found out by an anonymous YouTube commenter; the rest by me.

This shows that the The Book of Giants was part of the original proto-Christian canon and comes directly from same sources as the Old Testament genealogies (which did not retain Oera Linda names and narratives, unlike the original Sumerian King List version). As in:

Oera Linda book, Frá Fornjóti > Sumerian King List, ABC19 > Old Testament, The Book of Giants (a Dead Sea scroll).

- - -

I'm nowadays more open to the idea that the Old Testament and New Testament were written either in one go, or to purposefully mirror each other. Presence of Greek and Buddhist divine deities in OT beginning and NT ending is a clear textual clue to this. In original Buddhist version the four rivers stem out of four animal heads, this has been broken into four rivers of OT Genesis and four animal heads of NT Revelation (i.e. the beginning and the end of the whole Bible book).

A major clue to the origins of the OT Bible narrative are the Greek, Buddhist and Finnish elements embedded into it. The Greek one can be explained by the local Macedonian-Greek-Roman cultural supremacy. The Buddhist one can be explained by Ashoka's missionaries in Levant, or alternatively by a Roman forgery taking the Buddhist material as a secret additional source material (the conspiratorial theory). But they cannot explain why the OT Bible author went to extra lenght of correcting the Finnish names in Sumerian King List, substituting for more accuracy, when a forger would instead want to hide it:

• Melem-Kic was correctly back-reversed into more original Lémek/Lamech ie. Lemminki

• the original two Sumerian Nunas had no flood element, so the Noah flood must have come from Finnish Gubben Noah story (same echoed also in pagan Old Norse toponym Nóatún)

• correctly substituting Reu ie. Ra-Ilmarinen for Enmerkar (from Kári-Ilmarinen)

• correctly substituting Terah son of Nahor for En-nun-tarah-ana, or king THÍR/Iku-Tiera son of Niera.

This means the Bible OT author, or its reviser, had to:

• correctly note the Levantine name list's partial Nordic origins

• known the native names of those characters and not only the foreign Old Norse ones

• be well-wersed in ancient Greek literature

• be well-wersed in ancient Buddhist literature.

... the only person on planet Earth who could have done that, is no other than Jesus Christ of Bock saga, who was of royal bi-lingual stock of Nordic kings, spoke both Germanic and Finnish natively, grew up in a Greek court of Byzantium as child, lived then in Egypt as child, studied personally Buddhism in Tibet and India and was active in Levant. Only he would have had the Nordic interest in the names list.

OT Genesis is textual evidence for existence of Jesus Christ, specifically the Bock saga Jesus Christ, meaning also the OT Genesis as whole must post-date the 600s BC date by a lot - despite paradoxically having also c. 1800 BC Sumerian King List portions in it (that in turn connected to c. 2000 BC Oera Linda material in it). By comparison, Bock saga female Morse (the ancient Greek and later Byzantine Moso) could not have wrote it as she lived far before the era of Buddha and had no special Greek connection.

Job 37 is downstream of Mahagovinda Sutta, an Buddhist text that takes place in relation to figure of Buddha. This again means that portion of OT (Job 37) must be much newer than 600s BC date usually put to whole OT text.

No mid-1800s Dutch forger could have forged this. No mid-1980s Ior Bock could have forged this. Oera Linda book is a real c. 2000 BC story, Bock saga correctly retains BC and early AD era stories, but the Christian works (Old Testament, Dead Sea scroll The Book of Giants) contain vastly differing textual sources, some from c. 1800 BC era and others from early centuries AD era. The Bible must have had many editors, some of whose can be identified by the sources they must have had access to in native languages.

- - -

For Germanic examples of how we have one and same holy names all around the planet Earth, see Troy in Germany, Abraham in Austria (search for: Amongst these identifications...) and Jesus in Germany

Me and Ott have spoken much about this phenomena earlier, e.g. Lindesnes of Oera Linda book in southern tip of Norway, but also in Estonian pagan capitol area.

Some of these ancient word-games include the Imaus mountains of Asia as 'Finland' (Suomi) backwards, the stories of holy Kuunteluvuori (FInland) and holy Kunlun (Asia) mountains; the most humorous is alternative name of Imaus as one Emodos - that is Biblical 'Sodom' backwards.

From Little Tibet we have the Baltistan tribe, just as we have in Bock saga the tale how house of Lemminkäinen (Balder) in Baltic Sea gave in ancient times the permission for the ancestors of Lapps to move from Tibet all the way to Fennoscandia. I could on and on with these examples of how the ancients used these same names and encoded stories into them by that way. Story of Abraham and Sarah was originally the story of Brahmins of India who took the cult of Brahma and Saraswati to west; the northern god of Job 37 is the Brahma of Mahagovinda Sutta.

[ott]

Much interesting material in your post, Nordic, that I may reply to later.

These days I read (selected chapters of) Chronology 1 by Fomenko (English 2nd edition, 2006), given to me 4 years ago. It reads like a Sherlock Holmes' case (better than that actually) and this topic will be my highest priority for the coming time.

It has already led to major shifts in my understanding of and thinking about the (more than 400 years) distant past.

c. 2000 BC Oera Linda material

I no longer believe in such long time spans.
(From Bock Saga I have always considered the claims about millions of years absurd, although other aspects of it do sound credible, for example the closed cave.)

A few notes only for now. There will be much more to explain later.

When J.J. Scaliger (1540-1609) compiled his chronology, there may have been various mediaeval chronological traditions (timelines) in use, that differ from the one that we are now accustomed to.

It is therefore possible, and I now think it is plausible, that:

1. Hidde's letter (ch. A), dated by himself as written in the 1256th year in the Christian (‘Kersten’) reckoning, is significantly less than 769 years old. Perhaps from our late 15th century. Likewise, the Vronen massacre may have taken place in the early 16th century, rather than over 700 years ago.

• Liko's letter (ch. B), dated as written in the year 803 in Christian (‘Kersten’) understanding, was written much less than 452 years before Hidde copied it, but rather a few generations only.

And, as I wrote in the opening post:

... the reliability of a comparison of the two timelines [Kersten-reckoning and Atland-drowning] is questionable. Hidde may have projected a then assumed dating of a big flood on the older dating system, that had already been out of use for a long time. It's even possible and plausible that for many of the older texts, the Atland (or 'Aldland') reference was used in a more symbolic than factual way.

[Kraftr]

I get so confused with the dates with all the different disputed eras vs acheology, I gladly leave this puzzle to others.
Was the dating of the volcanic activity from Frethoric in my comment (below)helpfull? A good anchoring point for extrapolating other dates? The backdating from the University of Oslo seems to fit your assumption of it happening in the first millennium.

Also, does anyone know of a northern-European cataclism (with Earth changes), reliably dated in our first millennium, which could be related to the events described by Frethorik?

Most likely; there was "a volcanic double event in 536CE and 540CE resulting in cooling." In Norway.
Volcanic Eruptions and their Impacts on Climate, Environment, and Viking Society in 500–1250 CE (VIKINGS) University of Oslo.

From the research:
"In Norway, the mid-6th century is associated with profound changes in social organization and material culture, which defines the very transition from the Early Iron Age to the Late Iron Age (500 BCE–550 CE and 550–1050 CE, respectively). Often understood as a turning point in Norwegian prehistory, many archeologists discuss a possible causal relationship with the volcanic double event in 536 and 540 CE (Iversen, 2016; Gundersen, 2019). Bajard et al.""

[Kraftr]

Please try to be to the point in your replies.

Yes I did go a bit overboard here. Edited it a bit. I haven't seen it, I usually don't want to log onto any sites, this forum is an exception. I hope your not wasting time with this theory, but I'm eager to hear more.

[ott]

I hope your not wasting time with this theory

On the contrary.
Timeline revision will validate Oera Linda and vice versa.
Once you've seen it, there is no way back.
There's too much to explain just yet.