Has anyone here researched the following historical references and formed a clear view as to their likely validity and usefulness?. If so I would welcome your views, which may well shortcut my pending research, and possibly eliminate dead ends.
1. the Zeno 16th century map, subsequently copied into several later early maps. I have gotten as far as noticing that it is dismissed as fraud/hoax, which seems to be the starting point for any proposal that doesn't fit within the mainstream view on any and every topic. I am curious as to it naming a Frisland 5 centuries ago.
2. Bock Saga. The early pages, as far as I've gotten seem quite bizarre to me, however I am aware that it is regarded as a valuable resource by more than a few.
3. The Arctic Home in the Vedas by B G Tilak. (Comprehensive study of the Vedas etc. getting to his last chapter summary) I've just acquired this, and it'll be at least a sixpack of aspirin wading through it given the manner its written in, so hopefully someone else is ahead of me on this. Maybe this syncs with the Hyperborean myth.
(Extracts for reference) "The original tradition of 10,000 years since the last deluge fully in accord with Vedic chronology — And also with the American estimate of 8,000 B.C. for the beginning of the Post-Glacial period — "All prove the existence of a Polar Aryan home before 8,000 B.C. — The theory of the Polar origin of the whole human race not inconsistent with the theory of the Arctic Aryan home" "Proofs of the theory of the Arctic home summed up — They clearly indicate a Polar home, but the exact spot in the Arctic regions, that is, north of Europe or Asia, still undeterminable "
Cheers, and thanks in advance.
Rob
Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
Some notes:
1. If the island indeed existed it will have disappeard long before the 16th century when the maps we know were made. The 16th century map makers may have copied the island from older sources. On some maps, toponyms are included which was of most interest to me. But besides the name of the island which is obviously similar to Friesland and Fryasland, I could not make sense of the toponyms through the Fryas language. So Fryas Folk will not have invented these names.
2. Parts of the Bock Saga I find plausible (for example the Temple of Lemminkäinen that has partly been excavated), others semi-plausible and some not at all, for example that Atlantis would have meant "All-the-land-ice", which may at best have been a wordplay.
1. If the island indeed existed it will have disappeard long before the 16th century when the maps we know were made. The 16th century map makers may have copied the island from older sources. On some maps, toponyms are included which was of most interest to me. But besides the name of the island which is obviously similar to Friesland and Fryasland, I could not make sense of the toponyms through the Fryas language. So Fryas Folk will not have invented these names.
2. Parts of the Bock Saga I find plausible (for example the Temple of Lemminkäinen that has partly been excavated), others semi-plausible and some not at all, for example that Atlantis would have meant "All-the-land-ice", which may at best have been a wordplay.
Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
Alewyn Raubenheimer's Chronicles From Pre-Celtic Europe (3rd Edition) incorporates an appendix on the mythical island of Frisland.
A synopsis of this text reveals the Zeno map to be the most advanced cartographic representation of its era. Consequently, it is implausible that the inclusion of a substantial fictional island would have been a deliberate contrivance. Instead, the sources utilized for Frisland were antiquated, potentially drawing from antedeluvian legends positioning the island in the Atlantic Ocean. This assertion is further substantiated by a comprehensive analysis of the Oera Linda Book, complemented by an examination of the underwater topography in the North Atlantic.
Raubenheimer's hypothesis posits that the Frya Aldland was indeed the island of Frisland, which is speculated to have been a point of departure for refugees seeking sanctuary in European colonies following its submergence in the year 2194 BC. The hypothesis suggests that Frya might have been a real woman who survived the disaster and arrived on the shores of Fleeland, potentially related to the modern island of Vlieland, thus serving as the inspiration for her myth. One should also bear in mind the meaningful etymology of the term "flee land". The mountainous Faeroe Islands are the extant remnants of Frisland. The etymology of that name is also of note: The name "Faeroe" is analogous to "Phaeacia," a term used in the Homeric works to denote Fryasland. In the proposed theory, the existence of a sunken Finda Aldland in the far east might be assumed by the Fryas.
Alternatively, Aldland could merely signify the ancient world pre-dating 2194 BC. Indeed, a significant proportion of the names featured on the Frisland map appear to be of a nonsensical nature. These names could be the result of either deliberate invention or the influence of Latin or Italian linguistic elements. Examples include:
A synopsis of this text reveals the Zeno map to be the most advanced cartographic representation of its era. Consequently, it is implausible that the inclusion of a substantial fictional island would have been a deliberate contrivance. Instead, the sources utilized for Frisland were antiquated, potentially drawing from antedeluvian legends positioning the island in the Atlantic Ocean. This assertion is further substantiated by a comprehensive analysis of the Oera Linda Book, complemented by an examination of the underwater topography in the North Atlantic.
Raubenheimer's hypothesis posits that the Frya Aldland was indeed the island of Frisland, which is speculated to have been a point of departure for refugees seeking sanctuary in European colonies following its submergence in the year 2194 BC. The hypothesis suggests that Frya might have been a real woman who survived the disaster and arrived on the shores of Fleeland, potentially related to the modern island of Vlieland, thus serving as the inspiration for her myth. One should also bear in mind the meaningful etymology of the term "flee land". The mountainous Faeroe Islands are the extant remnants of Frisland. The etymology of that name is also of note: The name "Faeroe" is analogous to "Phaeacia," a term used in the Homeric works to denote Fryasland. In the proposed theory, the existence of a sunken Finda Aldland in the far east might be assumed by the Fryas.
Alternatively, Aldland could merely signify the ancient world pre-dating 2194 BC. Indeed, a significant proportion of the names featured on the Frisland map appear to be of a nonsensical nature. These names could be the result of either deliberate invention or the influence of Latin or Italian linguistic elements. Examples include:
- Sudeno Colfo = Southern Gulf, possibly named by Zeno?
- Sorand = SÉ.RAND? = Sea Rand/Edge, perhaps signifying that it is a peninsula or the "edge" of the island.
- Godmeo = GOD.MVDA? = Godmouth, potentially named after a river delta.
- Rodea = RÁD.É? = Red Water/Sea, due to its eastern location and the phenomenon of a red glow on the ocean at sunrise?
- P. Orlanda = Pedum/Pedales Orlanda? = FÉT.É.LANDA? = Foot Islands, either because they lie in the south or because they resemble foot trails.
Vigtig Viden eller ligegyldig Info?
Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
1. No, but see below. 2. Yes and yes, see below. 3. No, but again see below.
1. Not a Zeno expert, but upon simple searching by the map name found a website that seems to give a credible explanation of how the names on the map came to be, see the etymologies given here. As per that site, "Frisland" somewhere between Iceland and Scotland would be a duplicate error of Iceland, same way "Estland" is not Estonia or Estland, but corruption of Shetland. Sounds reasonable to me and does not detract from the OL narrative in any way (what Jan wrote above). North America as "Estotiland" could perhaps reflect the Norse naming pattern of North America: Vinland-Finland/Winetland, Markland-Denmark/Finnmark, Helluland-Hel/Helsingland etc, perhaps actually standing here for Estonia or 'East-land'. See here for more information and a map.
There is no general consesus which all European peoples or Eurasian peoples, other than Vikings, knew of or visited North America before Columbus. Like, the Romans claimed to have surveyed the whole planet by 44 BC (here, here, here and here; pineapple mosaics here and here). Bock saga claims leading medieval Finns always knew of the existence of the Americas under name Intia (not to be confused with India in Asia), using language that is very similar to early BC era Buddhist depictions of American Indian cultures in story called Āṭānāṭiya Sutta. See here with "Virupakha" and "Inda" standing for Viracocha and his son Inti (Bock saga Odenmaa is there under the country name Uttarakuru, the Bock saga narrative elements embedded into the Sanskrit language city names). Thus, in comparison the idea that some Italians went to Americas in late 1300s sounds rather modest and I see no reason why it couldn't be literally true.
2. I'm assuming you're referring to the book version sold at online bookshops. Be sure to check out also the video documentaries here (put the subtitles on from the text icon), here and here. All folklores have academic reference codes, for Bock family saga it's "SLS 1539 a" and "SLS 1539 b" (link). Overwhelmingly the most important single source to ever emerge out of Nordic peoples, not as historically or geographically detailed as OL, but wins big time over in describing the underlying philosophy and the king systems. Heavy on wordplays and etymology, so some basic knowledge of Swedish and Finnish is rather useful. Shares many similar elements with OL e.g. two-tiered Finnish system, 7 islands and Valhalla (Walhallagara in OL) and Frey as important character as being the first human male (Wralda the creator god in OL, see comparison here). Core narrative elements can be positively dated to BC era via early Buddhist literature on Nordic holy lands (see part 6 here). Racial creation tale actually tells where and how whites came to be (ice age Baltic Sea region), in comparison OL story on how races came to be is very simplistic theological tale. Some content is mythical and thus vague and allegorical in nature, others like the medieval material is very specific, even down to calendar day number when some raid, attack or royal situation took place. Most sexual traditions presented were known to medieval Nordic peoples, early AD era Christians (Borborite faction Jesus Christ) and likes of ancient Chinese upper class, who wrote treatises on very similar things.
3. Have not read the book, but the medieval era Hindus did claim that their locally noteworthy Kuru family lines in India are southern offshoots of arctic Uttarakuru peoples. This nearby combination of Uttarakuru-Amazon Land-Tavatimsa has a source model in northern Europe, being Finland (called Amazon Land or Terra Feminarum in medieval Christian and Islamic accounts*), with the story of holy land of Odenmaa (Odainsakr in Old Norse and Undensakre in Latin) and a notable region of Tavastia in it. Thus the idea that ancient culture of India comes from northern Eurasian regions is something already present in medieval and older Hinduism and not something invented by modern era authors like Tilak. This obviously may connect to the OL and Bock saga ideas of ancient Europeans having once lived in India.
* This is believed to be confusion of Kainuu region > Old Norse corresponding geographical term Kvenland > misunderstood by foreign Christians, Muslims as similar sounding Kvinnaland 'Woman-land'; or alternatively based on island Naissaar 'Woman-island' on nearby Estonian coastline (Estonians are a related Finnic people and share the same foundation mythology).
1. Not a Zeno expert, but upon simple searching by the map name found a website that seems to give a credible explanation of how the names on the map came to be, see the etymologies given here. As per that site, "Frisland" somewhere between Iceland and Scotland would be a duplicate error of Iceland, same way "Estland" is not Estonia or Estland, but corruption of Shetland. Sounds reasonable to me and does not detract from the OL narrative in any way (what Jan wrote above). North America as "Estotiland" could perhaps reflect the Norse naming pattern of North America: Vinland-Finland/Winetland, Markland-Denmark/Finnmark, Helluland-Hel/Helsingland etc, perhaps actually standing here for Estonia or 'East-land'. See here for more information and a map.
There is no general consesus which all European peoples or Eurasian peoples, other than Vikings, knew of or visited North America before Columbus. Like, the Romans claimed to have surveyed the whole planet by 44 BC (here, here, here and here; pineapple mosaics here and here). Bock saga claims leading medieval Finns always knew of the existence of the Americas under name Intia (not to be confused with India in Asia), using language that is very similar to early BC era Buddhist depictions of American Indian cultures in story called Āṭānāṭiya Sutta. See here with "Virupakha" and "Inda" standing for Viracocha and his son Inti (Bock saga Odenmaa is there under the country name Uttarakuru, the Bock saga narrative elements embedded into the Sanskrit language city names). Thus, in comparison the idea that some Italians went to Americas in late 1300s sounds rather modest and I see no reason why it couldn't be literally true.
2. I'm assuming you're referring to the book version sold at online bookshops. Be sure to check out also the video documentaries here (put the subtitles on from the text icon), here and here. All folklores have academic reference codes, for Bock family saga it's "SLS 1539 a" and "SLS 1539 b" (link). Overwhelmingly the most important single source to ever emerge out of Nordic peoples, not as historically or geographically detailed as OL, but wins big time over in describing the underlying philosophy and the king systems. Heavy on wordplays and etymology, so some basic knowledge of Swedish and Finnish is rather useful. Shares many similar elements with OL e.g. two-tiered Finnish system, 7 islands and Valhalla (Walhallagara in OL) and Frey as important character as being the first human male (Wralda the creator god in OL, see comparison here). Core narrative elements can be positively dated to BC era via early Buddhist literature on Nordic holy lands (see part 6 here). Racial creation tale actually tells where and how whites came to be (ice age Baltic Sea region), in comparison OL story on how races came to be is very simplistic theological tale. Some content is mythical and thus vague and allegorical in nature, others like the medieval material is very specific, even down to calendar day number when some raid, attack or royal situation took place. Most sexual traditions presented were known to medieval Nordic peoples, early AD era Christians (Borborite faction Jesus Christ) and likes of ancient Chinese upper class, who wrote treatises on very similar things.
3. Have not read the book, but the medieval era Hindus did claim that their locally noteworthy Kuru family lines in India are southern offshoots of arctic Uttarakuru peoples. This nearby combination of Uttarakuru-Amazon Land-Tavatimsa has a source model in northern Europe, being Finland (called Amazon Land or Terra Feminarum in medieval Christian and Islamic accounts*), with the story of holy land of Odenmaa (Odainsakr in Old Norse and Undensakre in Latin) and a notable region of Tavastia in it. Thus the idea that ancient culture of India comes from northern Eurasian regions is something already present in medieval and older Hinduism and not something invented by modern era authors like Tilak. This obviously may connect to the OL and Bock saga ideas of ancient Europeans having once lived in India.
* This is believed to be confusion of Kainuu region > Old Norse corresponding geographical term Kvenland > misunderstood by foreign Christians, Muslims as similar sounding Kvinnaland 'Woman-land'; or alternatively based on island Naissaar 'Woman-island' on nearby Estonian coastline (Estonians are a related Finnic people and share the same foundation mythology).
Last edited by Nordic on 27 Mar 2024, 13:11, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
Thank you for your suggestions and links.
I received my copy of the late Alewyn Raubenheimer's book some weeks back and have been picking away at it in between other research. I had read quite a bit of his work through a couple of forums he had posted with some years back, and was impressed with his views and reasoning, as I am with the book, which I regard as an outstanding effort. Following your post, I zeroed in on the Appendix you mentioned.
His case for the Faroe Islands is very well researched and put, I'm open on it at present, but his views are well presented and hard to dismiss.
Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
Thanks for your response and links given.
I explored the Bock subject further, certainly interesting, though it doesn't seem to gel with me, or at least parts of it don't. However, I would be curious as to whether and how it might relate to other material I have come across, as in Felice Vinci's "Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tale", where he proposes that the Mycenaean's originated from Scandinavia and Baltic regions.
He links Odysseus with the Faroe Islands and Scheria & the Phaeceans with Scandinavia, and in places seems to corroborate Alewyn Raubenheimer's work and perhaps in parts the OLB. Highly interesting, and he builds quite a case, yet if genetic studies have advanced enough to be reliable haplogroup typing doesn't support the theory, at least not so far as I have found.
Book Reviews
https://www.ancient-origins.net/book-re ... es-0012836
http://www.paabo.ca/reviews/BalticHomericVinci.html
https://nome.unak.is/wordpress/05-1/rev ... ions-2006/
Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
Toponyms are PIE :
- Soranda = tollan (and troy?). interestingly, we do have Sarandë in Albania, a really old town, located on the south of the country and close to the mediterranean sea. Albanian, while Indo-European, is an outlier of this language family. Other thing of interest : Alba means "White", hyperbolically, this would make frisland "The White Island" (Attala of the Indian legends), thus possibly Atlantis (and Altland)...
- Godinë : "building" in Albanese. While most have read Godmee, what is written is really godine(e).
- Porlanda : the island of Portland is one of the first place in UK to have been settled, giving poissibly a date for Frisland's demise : 8500 years ago. Worth of interest is the fact Porland was an island south of Frisland, exactly the same can be told for Portland and England.
- Oribar : in most probability linked with Irribaren (in modern basque a house on the lower level of a village), this is reinforced by the way the first "r" is written, differently from the second, indicating a double-r ("rr").
- Vena : tooth in Fulni-o (or Yate), a language isolate spoken on the north-eastern side of Brazil. Everything indicates this language did not developp with its neightbours, I.E. it came for elsewhere. Present-day location clearly indicates an atlantic origin. Vena on the Zeno map is not a town, but a protruding region (a "tooth"). The word for "Water" in Fulniô (oya) is virtually identical to Albanian's one (ujë).
- SanetxTol : could be the real Tol of mythology. Tol is the name of the jicaquean language (and people).
- Banar : "a trajectoire, course" in Swedish. That would make frisland the likely origin of the Norse people.
- Bondondia : clearly a cognitive of London, a town founded at least 7000 years ago.
- Cibonet ; same name as the people Colombus first met in Puerto Rico (Ciboney).
- Campa : "long" in Jicaquean, and "path" in Mepha'a, exactly what the so-called coast appears on the map.
- Soranda = tollan (and troy?). interestingly, we do have Sarandë in Albania, a really old town, located on the south of the country and close to the mediterranean sea. Albanian, while Indo-European, is an outlier of this language family. Other thing of interest : Alba means "White", hyperbolically, this would make frisland "The White Island" (Attala of the Indian legends), thus possibly Atlantis (and Altland)...
- Godinë : "building" in Albanese. While most have read Godmee, what is written is really godine(e).
- Porlanda : the island of Portland is one of the first place in UK to have been settled, giving poissibly a date for Frisland's demise : 8500 years ago. Worth of interest is the fact Porland was an island south of Frisland, exactly the same can be told for Portland and England.
- Oribar : in most probability linked with Irribaren (in modern basque a house on the lower level of a village), this is reinforced by the way the first "r" is written, differently from the second, indicating a double-r ("rr").
- Vena : tooth in Fulni-o (or Yate), a language isolate spoken on the north-eastern side of Brazil. Everything indicates this language did not developp with its neightbours, I.E. it came for elsewhere. Present-day location clearly indicates an atlantic origin. Vena on the Zeno map is not a town, but a protruding region (a "tooth"). The word for "Water" in Fulniô (oya) is virtually identical to Albanian's one (ujë).
- SanetxTol : could be the real Tol of mythology. Tol is the name of the jicaquean language (and people).
- Banar : "a trajectoire, course" in Swedish. That would make frisland the likely origin of the Norse people.
- Bondondia : clearly a cognitive of London, a town founded at least 7000 years ago.
- Cibonet ; same name as the people Colombus first met in Puerto Rico (Ciboney).
- Campa : "long" in Jicaquean, and "path" in Mepha'a, exactly what the so-called coast appears on the map.
-
Colin Alexander777
- Posts: 33
- Joined: 19 Mar 2025, 04:19
Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
You bring up some interesting connections- There’s a fascinating ongoing discussion around Frisland’s toponyms! It would seem that Nicolò Zeno the Younger had in his possession a map, with or without place names, to which he appended his own names to accord with his spurious account of his ancestors in the Zeno map (1558). Scholars suggest he repurposed medieval Faroe Islands and Orkney toponyms, Italianizing some and inventing others:
- Sudero matches Suðuroy (Faroese: southern island).
- Andeford resembles Arnafjørður (Faroese: eagle fjord).
- Monaco derives from Munkur (Faroese: monk).
- Podalida aligns with Pomona (Orkney: Mainland).
- Bres echoes Bressay (Orkney/Shetland).
- Nordero links to Norðadalur (Faroese: northern valley).
- Stromo may stem from Streymoy (Faroese: current island).
- Sorand appears invented and italianized like many of the names to appeal to a Venetian audience
Preeminent scholars Jean Nicolas Buache (1787, Google Books) and Frederick W. Lucas (1898, Archive.org) detailed these connections.
- Sudero matches Suðuroy (Faroese: southern island).
- Andeford resembles Arnafjørður (Faroese: eagle fjord).
- Monaco derives from Munkur (Faroese: monk).
- Podalida aligns with Pomona (Orkney: Mainland).
- Bres echoes Bressay (Orkney/Shetland).
- Nordero links to Norðadalur (Faroese: northern valley).
- Stromo may stem from Streymoy (Faroese: current island).
- Sorand appears invented and italianized like many of the names to appeal to a Venetian audience
Preeminent scholars Jean Nicolas Buache (1787, Google Books) and Frederick W. Lucas (1898, Archive.org) detailed these connections.
Re: Zeno map - Bock Saga - Arctic Home in the Vedas
Well, I do not think personally that Sorand could have been an invention because :
- Surand is a living name.
The etymology given for it is in Northern German, Danish, and Swedish languages :
"topographic name for someone who lived by the seashore, from Middle Low German, Danish, Swedish strand 'shore'."
While I don't think "surand" stemmed from "strand" - the two words are most likely cognates, I find it quite interesting these very people correlate pretty well with the vikings, which were called Dene - hence the Danes -, but also "ostmen" (east-people) by Dubliners ; to me this is an indication they came from the east of Ireland, that is, the location of Frisland on most maps.
Appart from the Dene people of north America, there is also a real cognate of "strand" on the other side of atlantic, Guamotey "scanajuc" meaning exactly the same thing. The Guamo people lives currently in venezuela, and guess what, their language has no connexion with any known american language.
Another name for the people, used by Finns and Slavs was Rus' or Rhōs, interestingly there is an intriguely russian-sounding "vadin" at the north of the island.
The origin of the Danes remains undetermined to this day. In other words, the Scandza of Jordanes (that he described as a "great island") could be Fixlanda (Xlanda). It appears that Scandinavia means "new-Scandia" so the two places have to be different. Jordanes also said the Dani were of the same stock as the Suetidi, which correlates well with the languages of the above etymology.
This is from Wikipedia : "The first attested written use of the name for a Northern European island appears in the work of Roman Pliny the Elder, Naturalis Historia of c. AD 77. Pliny described "Scandia" as an island located north of Britannia. This island does not appear to be the same as the island Pliny calls "Scatinavia", located near Cimbri. In Claudius Ptolemy's Geographia, written in the 2nd century AD, Scandia is described as the most easterly of the Scandiae islands, a group of islands located east of the Cimbrian peninsula. This is the region where Pliny had located "Scatinavia"
"Jordanes referred to Ptolemy's description of Scandia "as a great island shaped like a juniper leaf" "having bulging sides and which tapered down in the south at a long end". He also referred to Pomponius Mela's description of Codanonia (called Scatinavia by Pliny the Elder) which was located in the Codanian Gulf. "This island was in front of the Vistula and that there was a great lake" "from which sprang the river Vagus". "On the western and northern side it was surrounded by an enormous sea", "but in the east there was a land bridge which cut off the sea in the east forming the Germanic Sea". "There were also many small islands" "where wolves could pass when the sea was frozen. In winter the country was not only cruel to people but also to wild beasts. Due to the extreme cold there were no swarms of honey-making bees."
What better description for Frisland ?
If you look at the map, you can clearly see the many small islands in a C. Nordei (Nordei being quite identical to the name given to this people).
The land bridge cutting the sea at the east could have been Pigiu, and the long end at the south Monaco.
I wonder if Codanian (this mysterious golf) could be related to Godmeo.
- Surand is also the name of a french river. Once nasalyzing the "i" of Frisland, you'll get Frinsland, close to "Frans-land", hence Frisland could not only have been the origins of Frisians, but also of Francks.
- Suran means "celestial" or "godlike" in Sanskrit, and is related to the Asuras, which old indian legends tell they were living on Atala, "a white island", which was destroyed along with six other ones (Dvi, Hotxe, Lédéue, Porlanda, Spurige, Stremé ?).
I wonder if "dvipa", the sanskrit word for island, could be related to the very name of Dvi.
Another interesting connexion, which was posited by many scholars, is the identity of Asura and Æsir, thus reinforcing the old norse theory (equating then Atala with Altland).
While the story of the Zeno brothers is quite possibly spurious, I wonder about their venetian origin, as Pline the older located the Veneti in Aeningia, an island according to him.
the Veneti were also called Vandili, meaning they could have been the same as the Venelli, whose capital Occismor could well have been related (if not the same) to Ocibar.
Assuming the Veneti really came from here, they could have kept a map (or several ones) of their original home somewhere in Venetia. Of course this is only a theory.
- Surand is a living name.
The etymology given for it is in Northern German, Danish, and Swedish languages :
"topographic name for someone who lived by the seashore, from Middle Low German, Danish, Swedish strand 'shore'."
While I don't think "surand" stemmed from "strand" - the two words are most likely cognates, I find it quite interesting these very people correlate pretty well with the vikings, which were called Dene - hence the Danes -, but also "ostmen" (east-people) by Dubliners ; to me this is an indication they came from the east of Ireland, that is, the location of Frisland on most maps.
Appart from the Dene people of north America, there is also a real cognate of "strand" on the other side of atlantic, Guamotey "scanajuc" meaning exactly the same thing. The Guamo people lives currently in venezuela, and guess what, their language has no connexion with any known american language.
Another name for the people, used by Finns and Slavs was Rus' or Rhōs, interestingly there is an intriguely russian-sounding "vadin" at the north of the island.
The origin of the Danes remains undetermined to this day. In other words, the Scandza of Jordanes (that he described as a "great island") could be Fixlanda (Xlanda). It appears that Scandinavia means "new-Scandia" so the two places have to be different. Jordanes also said the Dani were of the same stock as the Suetidi, which correlates well with the languages of the above etymology.
This is from Wikipedia : "The first attested written use of the name for a Northern European island appears in the work of Roman Pliny the Elder, Naturalis Historia of c. AD 77. Pliny described "Scandia" as an island located north of Britannia. This island does not appear to be the same as the island Pliny calls "Scatinavia", located near Cimbri. In Claudius Ptolemy's Geographia, written in the 2nd century AD, Scandia is described as the most easterly of the Scandiae islands, a group of islands located east of the Cimbrian peninsula. This is the region where Pliny had located "Scatinavia"
"Jordanes referred to Ptolemy's description of Scandia "as a great island shaped like a juniper leaf" "having bulging sides and which tapered down in the south at a long end". He also referred to Pomponius Mela's description of Codanonia (called Scatinavia by Pliny the Elder) which was located in the Codanian Gulf. "This island was in front of the Vistula and that there was a great lake" "from which sprang the river Vagus". "On the western and northern side it was surrounded by an enormous sea", "but in the east there was a land bridge which cut off the sea in the east forming the Germanic Sea". "There were also many small islands" "where wolves could pass when the sea was frozen. In winter the country was not only cruel to people but also to wild beasts. Due to the extreme cold there were no swarms of honey-making bees."
What better description for Frisland ?
If you look at the map, you can clearly see the many small islands in a C. Nordei (Nordei being quite identical to the name given to this people).
The land bridge cutting the sea at the east could have been Pigiu, and the long end at the south Monaco.
I wonder if Codanian (this mysterious golf) could be related to Godmeo.
- Surand is also the name of a french river. Once nasalyzing the "i" of Frisland, you'll get Frinsland, close to "Frans-land", hence Frisland could not only have been the origins of Frisians, but also of Francks.
- Suran means "celestial" or "godlike" in Sanskrit, and is related to the Asuras, which old indian legends tell they were living on Atala, "a white island", which was destroyed along with six other ones (Dvi, Hotxe, Lédéue, Porlanda, Spurige, Stremé ?).
I wonder if "dvipa", the sanskrit word for island, could be related to the very name of Dvi.
Another interesting connexion, which was posited by many scholars, is the identity of Asura and Æsir, thus reinforcing the old norse theory (equating then Atala with Altland).
While the story of the Zeno brothers is quite possibly spurious, I wonder about their venetian origin, as Pline the older located the Veneti in Aeningia, an island according to him.
the Veneti were also called Vandili, meaning they could have been the same as the Venelli, whose capital Occismor could well have been related (if not the same) to Ocibar.
Assuming the Veneti really came from here, they could have kept a map (or several ones) of their original home somewhere in Venetia. Of course this is only a theory.