Gaelic Chronology

Dating of the various texts in relation to other sources, archaeology, geology, genetics etc.
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Cú Chulainn
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Gaelic Chronology

Post by Cú Chulainn »

This post avoids diluting the original thesis’ intent in the Radical chronology revision thread to likewise expand the Chronology topic’s breadth as a whole.

The purposes of the Gaelic Chronology thread are:
  • To diverge from the Radical chronology revision thread, to establish a uniform Gaelic history.
  • To coordinate chronology of peoples associated with likened diaspora from previous cataclysms.
  • To assess found and potential sites related to archeological significance above and below water.
  • Ultimately, to expound a truthful telling of history based on “X happened, Y # of years back”.
While Radical chronology revision thread builds a vast breadth of data sets for individual cultures, both unique and potentially duplicate, this focuses on the Gael with intent to help sift through muck that arises from looking into like peoples and potentially duplicate peoples.

Rather than dominoes, or puzzle pieces, finding the right tree, cut down or not, is the correct approach to connect the branches we already have for the leaves to grow again in the sunlight which ever continues to persist.

This does go on long, yet so be it aligned with the length of the wit necessary to understand history that exceeds the cycles of a fortnight.

To wit, for successive posts, anyone is encouraged to lend data in attesting and detesting, since errors are important in disseminating histories, especially when once culture is valued over another.

The Makings of a Scotic Epic

For purposes of obvious concordance, there is a general narrative of clear disparity in Gaelic scholars’ timelines themselves (Four Masters and Keating have 412 years difference in the end of the first Érimónian king’s reign).
  • See Four Master’s Annals Volume 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Coinciding data identified with great difference in prominent kings’ reigns (Túathal, Niall) and the core assertion that the current missive of Niall being the RM-222 Y-DNA Haplogroup originator is incorrect.
  • Túathal as the RM-222 origin heightens potential to push the reigns forward about 300 years
  • “200 years” of Irish history is said to be lost for the Northern Uí Néill (in the time period of 900s-1200s which pushes reigns backwards substantially)
This constitutes a near 500 year gap for a singular timeline that branches into two clear historical threads between Túathal and Niall (both these kings being dead by circa 106 CE and 405 CE, respectively).

With evidence of the aforementioned 400 year disparity between contemporary Irish historians of the 1600s, it is pertinent to discern, between genetics and histories, the proper dating of prominent figures to increase the likely hood of matching geological events with cultures.

Many connections can be made between the longest known agnatic history that connects to the RM-222 genetics and features a burial mound (that isn’t under water) at New Grange located in County Meath, with corresponding cultures that have dated structures and cataclysm myths across continents.

The Gaelic scholars in Contention of the Bards (CotB) dictate their history’s total years prior to the well-known and controversial “Flight of the Earls” in 1607, indicating a timeframe available for listings of rulers with their reigns.

Their work details a bardic poetry debate of the last true Ollamh trained Filidh who represented different parts of Ireland (North and South) starting with two poems in the narration of Torna Eices, the Ollamh Érenn, and his having mediated the dispute of Niall and Corc of Cashel, largely growing into gauging the superiority of royal stocks of the island over the others based on their rights to rule.
  • See Contention of the Bards Parts 1 and 2
With the work of Roger O’Connor, a historian post dating the CotB by 200 years, the Gaelic peoples wandered some time before conquering Ireland, as forbearers of kings argued in the CotB, thus, it is likely Gaelic Scholars would total history with their wanderer years included.
The Book of Ireland’s Taking relays conquerings of Ireland by different inhabitants, including the story of the Gael, with their time in Iberia being described as part of 440 years of wandering, as prophesied by one of their seers, succeeding their diaspora from surrounding Scythia.
Their wanderings (the Gael) not only coordinate from Scythia, yet include traversing through the Black Sea and Aegean Sea, into Egypt, along the Mediterranean Sea, then finally establishing themselves in Iberia along the Ebro River within its furthest extent near Cantabria.

Their burial mound, in Ireland, predates the current fixing of Stone Henge, and post dates the actual topographical analysis of the largest pyramids in Egypt.

With water erosion assessed near the Sphinx suggesting the Pyramids were built before the current dating to the extent of sometime around the Younger Dryas cataclysm (another data set that can be used to date real points in time, backwards), it determines that New Grange is actually younger than those pyramids by a great deal.

Meaning, with the Gael, there are comparison sites (New Grange, Tara) and comparison figures (Érimón, Úgaine, Túathal, Niall) that can establish cross referencing with the numerous overlapping periods of time, significant sites, figures of prominent interest, and cultural maxims of importance (such as OL).

Were Frisians to have their kings clearly defined, it may be easier to use them as the model, yet a timespan of asserting the original OL was sometime developed between the 2,997 years, between 2194 BC and 803 CE, provides points of interest to determine which king was which (there are posts here relating Fionn Mac Cumhaill from the etymology’s meaning; maybe a different Finn).

Although where that king ruled (either their established kingdom or by extension through tribute), is a lot easier with the Gael, since Niall ruled the “mead-drinking manor” of Tara, with descendents as Kings of Ailech.
It is drunkeness that made him in the daytime thus mention Conn's Teamhair, for he would never get the mead-drinking manor from Eireamhon's sons without a fight. (Said Niall)

- Tadhg mac Dáire, Southern Poet
Contention of the Bards Poem II Quatrain 16
Meaning, Niall’s predecessors and descendants were not doing their kingly feats and festivals outside Ireland, unless it was on raids or diplomatic excursions.

Established Kingdoms Meet More Invasions: Ethnic Cleansing of Gaels

So in relation to the Gael, those men being certainly of the Scythian stock, their origins were nomadic sea fairing mercenaries, while at sea, and tent stationed warriors, while on land, prior to founding sustained kingdoms for hundreds and thousands of years on a specific island.
As to what belongs to the history of Ireland, it should be considered that it is authentic, because it used to be purged at the Feis Teamhrach every third year, in the presence of the nobility, clergy, and ollamhs.

— Geoffrey Keating
Upon creating their own kingdoms, with a Book of Rights that defined the assembly of kings, among works that founded law like the Senchas Már and Tecosca Cormaic in their Brehon system, their inter-clan feuds persisted albeit on a personal basis, rather than ethnically fueled, since regular festivals and cultural dynamics persisted.
  • The Aonach assemblies, with similar meetings such as the festivals (feis) at the Feis of Tara and Óenach Tailten, cultivated regional and national discourse on an annual and triennial basis
Gradual incursions from other peoples, like Vikings, culminated in the eventual landing and ever presence of the Danes, who generated permanent settlements in Dublin, Waterford, Cork, Wexford, and Limerick.
To wit, the farmer kings more likely than not came later, as the Norman, Tudor, and Cromwelian “conquests” were certainly about planting, as opposed to the attempted reconquering by Robert Bruce’s brother, Edward Bruce.

This paved way for century after century of repeated attempts to destroy the cultural cohesion of the Gael.
  • 1315-1318: Bruce campaign in Ireland coincided the First War of Scottish Independence, and although unsuccessful it severely weakened the initial Norman invasion’s influence, restricting much of the English rule to the Pale, undoubtably paving way for the next English conquest attempt
  • 1542-1603: Tudor conquest of Ireland built upon the Crown of Ireland Act by Henry VIII of England that elevated the English’s “Lord of Ireland” title to “King of Ireland”
  • 1649-1653: Cromwellian conquest of Ireland was a formal reconquest of Ireland by Oliver Cromwell after the failure to hold the Gaelic population down with English plantations
Although they were hated viciously by other peoples, the Gael shares a common background with a people that is commonly referred to as Scots.

Their line (the Bruce’s) hailed from the actual Scots, the Gaels, or Scoti in Latin, of prior ages in Ireland, as also indicated in Domhnall’s Remonstrance.
And that we may be able to attain our purpose more speedily and fitly in this respect, we call to our help and assistance Edward de Bruyis, illustrious earl of Carrick, brother of Robert by the grace of God most illustrious king of the Scots, who is sprung from our noblest ancestors.

— Domhnall Ua Néill, King of Tyrone
1317 Remonstrance to Pope John XXII 37th Paragraph
Such a document, to the patriarchal leader of an entire faith, in Christendom, highlights a period of successive centuries where the Gael coordinated efforts to protect ethnic solidarity, coinciding the newer invasions of an island that bases much of its early history on such acts.
Although among the more learned of Europa was any empathy to be found, and in support militarily, the Gael would provide the latter unto this day for kingdoms and nations whom left an ethnicity to rely on themselves.

Themselves being the descendents of once conquering, yet eventually retreating, rulers, that held an obviously higher morale standard than most others, even of the same root stocks, evident of a cultural connection to the gnosis of this forum’s purpose.

Wanderers to Rulers: Kings of All Ireland for More Than 3,000 Years

Regarding Ireland’s whole history, that of the Gael, it needs be mentioned that its validity is without question from the standpoint of a Gaelic ethnic heritage.

Domhnall’s letter details the Scotland and Ireland of 1317 being named “lesser Scotia” and “greater Scotia“, and therefore, a likewise historical timeline length.
For know, our revered Father, that besides the kings of lesser Scotia who all drew the source of their blood from our greater Scotia, retaining to some extent our language and habits

— Domhnall Ua Néill, King of Tyrone
1317 Remonstrance to Pope John XXII 41st Paragraph
Thus, it is determinable that the Scots of Scotland held two root stocks, in the Scots of Ireland and the Picts of Pictland, thus giving way to the supremacy of the Irish kingdom from a standpoint of heritage, so to say, the Scottish cultural gnosis branches from a singular trunk of the same tree regarding the Irish’s (Gael’s) own.
and he (Niall) was the first to give the name Scotia to Alba, being requested to do so by the Dal Riada and the Scotic race, on the condition that she should be called Scotia Minor or Lesser Scotia, while Ireland should be termed Scotia Major or Greater Scotia

— Geoffrey Keating,
1634 The History of Ireland Section XLVIII Page 374
This descendent of Niall, in Domhnall, by one of Niall’s sons, Legarius (Lóegaire in Gaelic), dictates another timespan, although exceeding the CotB’s timeframe, as well as Keating and the Four Masters.
Know then, most Holy Father, that since the time when our early ancestors, the three sons of Milesius or Micelius of Spain, by God's will came into Ireland (then destitute of all inhabitants) with a fleet of thirty ships from Cantabria, a city of Spain standing on the bank of the river Ebro or Hiberus (from which we take the name we bear), 3,500 years and more have passed, and of those descended from these men 136 kings without admixture of alien blood assumed the monarchical rule over all Ireland down to king Legarius, from whom I, Donald, have derived my descent in a straight line.

— Domhnall Ua Néill, King of Tyrone
1317 Remonstrance to Pope John XXII 2nd Paragraph
With the CotB’s dating computation, in the number of years of Gaelic history, from 1607’s Flight of the Earls, Domhnall’s letter adds 290 years prior to 1607 thus making Domhnall’s total over 3,790 years in comparison to the CotB figures of dating.

With adding the time span of 1607 to 2026, there is a clear, distinctly permeable numerical figure, to add to Keating’s and the Four Masters’, set to 4,209 total years.

As with the works of Keating and the Four Masters, the CotB differs from Domhnall’s letter by giving two figures regarding the furthest extension of their history.

Meaning, while determining the validity of their kings, the length of their total reigns can be set at two points in the past, the first being the reign of the Gael’s first king in Ireland, in Érimón, as a total figure backwards from the current day.

Alongside a second figure that adds their 440 total years of wandering, prior to Érimón’s reign, which can be further elongated by the work of Roger O’Connor, if his work is to be taken as serious literature since etymology and additional narratives legitimately heighten the breadth, in terms of data itself, of the Gael’s story.

So, there a four chronological dating mechanisms available, without question, regarding the four works mentioned in this thesis pertaining to the Gael’s foundation for the reign of Érimón (with purpose to lengthen the history by adding pre-reign numbers).
  • Geoffrey Keating’s figure of 3,313 years ago from 2026 (dating this as the start of Érimón’s reign)
  • The Four Masters’ figure of 3,726 years ago from 2026 (dating this as the start of Érimón’s reign)
  • The CotB’s two figures of
  • Domhnall’s letter’s figure of 4,209 years ago from 2026 (insinuating the start of Érimón’s reign)
This is a pure indication of the probable timeframe that Érimón’s reign would have endured, without the more radical, fringe perspectives that shape this post’s introspection into other cultures, since the words of Domhnall are by Érimón’s own descendent, arguably descendents of Érimón in the scholars as well, yet at the very least, from scholars who were learned in the Gaelic histories of contemporary learning, practice, dictation, and publishing thereof.

Clearly Defined Royal Branches: Érimónians, Éberians Lead the Gael

To fill out an extended timeline of such magnitude in relation to the Gael’s span of ruling kingdoms, there must be a related computation of kings to rule.

In the aforementioned works, there are annotations in the literary productions of Gaelic scholars which give kings lists, once such being the Roll of Kings, and for this thesis, Domhnall’s figure in his letter and the CotB’s figures.

The letter later expands upon the totaling of kings from 136, the number from Érimón to Lóegaire, to a total of 197, from the time of Érimón to Domhnall himself.
a hundred and ninety seven kings of our blood have reigned over the whole island of Ireland.

— Domhnall Ua Néill, King of Tyrone
1317 Remonstrance to Pope John XXII 41st Paragraph
The CotB corroborates this computation with breaking down the “race” in which each king belonged to.
Five of Eibhear's sons held sway in strong Teamhair some time after their father. They did not let it pass from their prescriptive right to it.

Twenty-eight descendants of one of them flourished before Corc—an accurate statement—over Teamhair of the heroes. Niall could not have gainsaid it.

- Tadhg mac Dáire, Southern Poet
Contention of the Bards Poem III Quatrain 14-15
One hundred and six kings of Eireamhon's race before and after Niall are in the Roll of Kings.

- Lughaidh Ó Cléirigh, Northern Poet
Contention of the Bards Poem IV Quatrain 46
Thus, 140 of the 197 Kings detailed in the letter by Domhnall are attributed by the poets in the CotB, with 34 (after 5 sons of Éber held sway as “king” in Tara, 28 of one of the son’s descendents, and 1 from Brian Ború) being of the race of Éber, and 106 being of the race of Érimón (the former being the latter’s elder brother).

47 of the Érimónian kings were after Niall (of his line) to the South’s (the descendent’s of Éber’s domain) one king in Brian Ború, meaning that prior to Niall there were 58 Érimónian kings.

A portion of the 197 kings were descended from Lugaid Mac Íth (Íth being Érimón’s and Éber’s father’s uncle, making Lugaid their 1st cousin once removed) and Er (kin of Érimón and Éber).

A poet, apparently not associated with either the North or the South, further goes on to coordinate confirmation of the number of kings and denouncing of their importance regarding which race they belonged to.
You counted twenty-eight kings on your side — great was the inferiority, — Lughaidh (counted) a hundred and six correctly. Poor is your (Tadhg’s) display beside them!

- Roibeard Mac Artúir, Independent poet
Contention of the Bards Poem XIII Quatrain 23
..but in comparison with your twenty-eight who ruled before the holy doctrine came! Likely enough it is difficult for you to come down bravely into the fight with your single Brian to do credit to Eibhear's race, against the forty-seven kings of Eireamhon's race..

— Roibeard Mac Artúir, Independent poet
Contention of the Bards Poem XVI Quatrains 116-117
Therein, the Gael constitutes a cultural cohesion that transcends doubt regarding a timeframe of their history starting minimally 3,313 to 4,209 years ago from the current date of 2026.

Therefore, with addition of their 440 years wandering, the furthest extant length they can be said to have existed as a people with an intact memory would be 3,753 to 4,649 years.

The Gael’s Cataclysm Comparison

Although the timeframe does differ by 896 years, it is grounded in the span of 4 cohesive works that have backing in material the modern person will never get their hands on, whether due to burning of manuscripts or not, would that it were the Gael were to have intact manuscripts found in disheveled state for later people to decipher, as with the OL.
  • Earliest to latest beginning of Érimón’s reign:
    3,313 to 4,209 years ago
  • Earliest to latest beginning of Gael’s wandering:
    3,753 to 4,649 years
Speaking of which, this falls within the timeframe as per the earliest year available for the prospective writing of the OL, at 4,220 years before 2026, which, with the new redefining of Túathal and Niall’s reigns, would both keep the Gael having their history after to cataclysmic forces made recognizable in the aforementioned text and go to make them compare as reputable sourcing for the memory of such an event.

To wit, with the furthest dating made possible by the Gael’s wandering being included with the dictation of Domhnall’s letter, the Gael would have arrived in Ireland sometime shortly after the writing of the OL, and it would corroborate the notion Domhnall refers to that the island was “void of prior inhabitants”.

However, this is unlikely, as other testaments indicate the island was populated, if not to the extent of later times, yet minimally by peoples such as the Tuath Dé Danann and Fír Bolg, those people having succeeded the peoples mentioned in the Book of Ireland’s Taking,

Thus, with the Book of Ireland’s taking referencing a cataclysmic event in a deluge, where the first people to be recorded as inhabiting that island were met by a flood, then this event must corroborate that sinking of Atland that is mentioned in the OL, and with this as the case, the figure of Domhnall must be incorrect, and the timeframe would be closer to the 3,753 furthest extant years before 2026 given when assessing Keating.

The red wind of humanity does posit the notion their ancestors sought refuge in Wind Cave of the Black Hills, where they emerged some 7,000 years ago after a cataclysm similar to a deluge of water and then established their oral memory.

The literary inference that a deluge of peoples against the Gael is suggested by O’Connor, in a way that attributes the nearness of Noah (as Ard Féar), this person would have existed after a deluge for sometime.

Thus, further, corroboration that the Gael was remnant diaspora of the cataclysm, with a cultural gnosis of being a Scotic people, with foundations in surrounding regions of Scythia, who escaped less fortunate circumstances in battling the hordes of multitudes that arose due to the actual deluge, for them to then make way to their prophesied fair isle.

Now, the Younger Dryas cataclysm poses questions about the furthest dating of the cataclysm that was water, such needed to make a sinking, yet the case of cyclical cataclysms is evident, as 12,900 years ago it is more likely a meteoric impact hit the North American continent by way of such force which left geological evidence to refute naysayers of there being any cataclysm at all.

Meaning, the closest cataclysm is beyond the extant history of the Gael, that has wisps of cultural memory of surviving this among other survivors, corroborating a time frame of sometime beyond 6,000 years, with, for attesting the cyclical nature of these cataclysms, there being strong evidence that a similar one, occurred well beyond the common supposition of that usual figure.

The Archaeology of the North Sea Landscapes
The Archaeology of the North Sea Landscapes
Ancient European Land Underwater.JPG (397.75 KiB) Viewed 80 times
Source: here and here

In an attempt to avoid the posting of any other inline graphics within this thread, the above image was too good to not embed, since, clearly the legend offers a sweet spot proposition of the landmass in dark green having sunk around 9,000 years ago, which would align conspicuously with all of the aforementioned data, both past the 6,000 year mark, as well as corroborating the data from cultures on the North American continent.

There seems to be a commonality in there being an age of the world where there is a start, yet this is surely a reference to the beginning of civilization anew, for whomever deems the dating to be sufficient when determining that the a new synchronizing of clocks must occur for the obvious prop of societal structures.

Gaelic Chronology Among Others

Thus, finally, the point is made that the Gael has cross reference in of itself (primary research for RM-222 originator and the oldest extensive archeological burial mound in existence), as well as cross reference to other peoples outside of their ethnocentricity.

Other peoples, in particular, related to antiquity and preceding what is known as Medieval times, whether unique or duplicate, being additions to help refine the dating of the hypothesis that Túathal and Niall have very large differing ends of their reigns, meaning they are closer than the current dating (106 CE and 405 CE).
  • Moses: Either the Old Testament (OT) figure, or a Hebrew healer, healed “Gaodhal Glas” in Egypt
  • Alexander: his reign ending within Érimón’s
  • Rome: Stilicho referred to the Gael’s under their leader, a “Scot”
  • Albion: Albion as a whole was under threat from the Scots throughout their connected histories
  • Gaul: the Frank’s intermarried during the time of Úgaine, Gaul was invaded by Niall
  • Scandanavia: Frisia and Scandinavia both received raids and sent raids involving the Gael
With the Moses reference, the Gael intersects at a critical point of the OT transition from every part of Egypt to the current Mediterranean coastline that is perpetually contested in the Levant.

As the story goes, one of the Gaelic ancestors, and a potential eponym of the terms “Gael” and “Gaelic” themselves (with their being numerous name variants in the Irish spelling), Goídel Glas, was healed by Moses during their time abroad in their season of 440 years wandering.

With Moses current dating set to 1271 BCE (as per “rabbinical” dating), the dating range of Érimón’s death as per Keating (1 year after 1262 BCE) suggests that Moses is inherently dated wrong by Keating’s work alone, since Érimón is 20th in descent from Goídel Glas, in a degree computation system of Érimón being 1 and Goídel Glas being 21 (1:21 degrees of ancestral descent).

Although this is contested fable, it is likely that this confection to the Hebrew practitioners is rooted in the timeline for those needing Wyrd threads to unweave the layer of shrouding veil for purposes of reweaving the true iteration of fate that has transpired.

As for Érimón being a contemporary of Alexander, the end of his reign (Érimón) is featured in the beginning of this post as a key factor in devising a refined Gaelic chronology since the Annals of the Four Masters (who date his reign 1,700BC to 1684BC) and Keating (dating as 1287BC to 1,272BC) differ so greatly.

Whoever dated Érimón to having been a contemporary of Alexander’s reign may have been looking at an entirely different chronology altogether however, since one piece of data suggests the former was 5 years into his reign when the latter perished.

Alexander passing in Babylon during June 323 BCE is glaring when comparing the suggested contemporary nature of his reign with Érimón’s, since it is clearly over 900 years post dating the Gaelic king, and nearly 1400, when using both Keating and the Annals estimates.

The contemporary reigns come more into the realm of possibility when redacting the Gaelic kings lives and reigns, however this will be detailed in the following post due to the nature of the computations.

Stilicho’s example is striking as the Latin from Claudian’s panegyric on the general relates that Roman Britain called for aid from Rome itself, with a note of interest regarding the term Saxon being used, potentially hinting at the dating error of not only Niall’s life, however the Roman civilization as well:
Me quoque vicinis pereuntem gentibus inquit,
Munivit Stilico, totam cum SCOTTUS IERNAM
Movit; et infesto spumavit remige Tethys.
Illius affectum curis, ne bella time|rem
SCOTTICA, nec Pictum tremerem, nec litore toto
Prospicerem dubiis venientem Saxona ventis.

"She owed her safety to that able commander when the Scot had put all IERNA in motion; when the ocean was agitated into a foam by hostile oars. He delivered her from the terrors of a Scot|tish war, from Pictish incursions, and from beholding piratical squadrons of Saxons coming to her coasts with the veering winds."
Saxons would not have been prominent to reference for any “Roman” from a kingdom standpoint in Britain until at least the 6th century (heptarchy), however Saxons from mainland Europe in “Old Saxony” may have been the pirates referenced since it connects closely to the Frisian region as a close launching point.

Thus, the data allows for cross referencing two cultural memories between a healing act so the information is a tendril salve that can be untouched by the falsity of the clear divisiveness of modern histories’ perspectives.

Now, these many examples are very, very major hitting historical narratives, and whether fabricated or duplicate, there is extensive evidence of the latter being more likely than the fabrication, especially regarding the OT being after the New Testament (NT) since there are certainly plenty of archetypes preceding time associated with the title given to the Emanuel of the NT.

An Established Gaelic Timeline

It is of paramount importance to not gloss over the easy, low hanging fruit (pun intended) that actually enables asserting trajectory for a “new” timeline, rather than pandering the falsity that certainly features both the fabrication and duplication more often than meets the eyes, like in the duplication case of Niall and Dathí.

The late Pat Flannery (Irish native born in Connaught) vehemently states, in a 10 part lecture, that Niall was killed by lightening which is entirely different than any of the narratives of his (Niall’s) triple death motif by arrow; such a reference itself is important because Niall’s supposed nephew (whom I’ve identified as a duplicate), in Nath Í (Dathí), was supposedly killed by lightening at the Alps as well.

Additionally, a thesis regarding Niall’s own revised chronology is in development, as a form of foundational narrative for a modern, comprehensive Scotic Epic, as a part of Filí na hÉireann, with which this forum has certainly helped since the Contention of the Bards was preserved in a similar way to the OL.

Although, the former was backed by the text society, rather than the mystical nature of the latter’s survival, which needs thorough defense, in comprehending others’ intuition to do as such regarding cultural theses of significance, that is often erroneously posed as pseudo history, in the case of OL, and unfortunately for the Gael as well, including misnomers of its polemic intent.
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